Challenge incorrect insurance telematics data?

justinhow

My son was involved in a 3 car shunt on a motorway. I was in the car as well.
We were hit from behind (whilst stationary) and shunted into the car in front. This is reality. The guy even admitted it at the time but was not recorded.
Our car had a black box (he was in his 1st year of driving) which our insurance company said originally they could get no data off. Strangely this seemed to become possible after another month or 2. Several months after that they have informed us that it shows that we hit the car in front 1st, and were then hit from behind. This is utter rubbish.
They have either misinterpreted the data or made it up. Do we have any rights to demand to see the telematics data or any other recourse open to us to challenge this? This could cost him well in excess of £1000 if we lose and the guy to blame will get away laughing.

Herzlos

How long were you stationary?

dannyrst

more importantly, do you have any evidence to contradict that provided by the insurer?

justinhow

We were stationary for probably about 5 seconds before we were hit from behind. This is approx.

As for evidence then not really. We were hit at the back of the car and at the front. The question is what order. Only a dashcam could probably provide that proof - the lorry behind the car that hit us drove off before he could be questioned. The guy in the front most car says he does not know whether we were stationary behind him before he was hit - he did not look in those 5 seconds. In fact he saw pretty much nothing behind him.
We have phots but they do not add anything really. Damage was visually fairly minor.

benten69

Have you asked the insurers for a copy of the data? What have they said? Reasons like this are why you couldn't pay me to fit one of those devices into my car!

Herzlos

To be fair, I can't think of any reason *why* you'd hit the car in front first, unless he reversed into you. Witnesses all have the same story in terms of being hit from behind by a lorry?

If so, you should be able to prove it by physics; given that you were undoubtedly hit by behind, that impact must have happened for you to hit the car in front.

I was just wondering if the telematics recorded you stopping suddenly as being a frontal impact, which would have happened first. The G forces would be similar.

justinhow

We will ask the insurers for the data - of course they may refuse or say it will mean nothing to us - but we will try. We will argue we want it independently verified.

This occurred on the M3 slip road feeding the M25 (northbound). All the traffic was coming to a standstill and the road surface was wet. So the person behind argues that we stopped so suddenly, because we hit the car in front, that he could then not stop in time. In reality he tried to dive between the lorry behind us and our car and then could not stop (he was also a new driver!) so hit us in the rear and we were pushed forward to hit the BMW in front.
My sons car was a write off - which was also a con I think as the damage was fairly slight, but that's another matter!
I went out and fitted a dashcam to my car the next week. I want my own evidence if it happens to me!
Re the physics - not easy toe prove I think. May be a crash expert could have looked at the damage on the cars at the time and given an opinion but that is all to late now.

dannyrst

Your best bet for confirming what happened is from the guy in front, even though he didn't see the order of the crash.

If your son hit the car infront first, then another car hit your son, you'd expect your sons car to have hit the car infront a second time, as there would be little to no gap between them due to the relatively small shunt it sounds like was in play here.

If the driver of the car infront of you confirms he was only hit once then it seems highly unlikely your son was the cause of the accident.

justinhow

Good point about the double hit - we have taken this up with the driver in front and he confirms he felt one hit.
Apparently that is not totally conclusive though - although we are considering legal action if this goes against us and then it would be useful.
I am going to speak to the insurance company this afternoon and be very clear on where we stand and the legal options we are considering.
If it goes to court the fact that the driver in front and both of us will testify that the rear most driver was desperate for it not to go to insurance companies - suspicious if he thought he was not at fault.

justinhow

I have now asked for the make, model, serial number along with data dump and engineers report of the Black Box as I want an independent expert to review it all.
I have said that the Black Box report is complete BS.
I have also made clear that if this ends up going to court the engineer who did the analysis needs to pretty damned sure of his work.
This will take a while I expect. I will update this thread with what happens next.

bod1467

It's your son's insurance ... why are you handling this and why are they talking to you?

I know you were a passenger, but you're not party to the insurance contract between your son and the insurance company. If your son has given permission for you to act in his stead, make sure that this is formally recognised by the insurance company.