Question about Solicitor charges?

lettucekl

Have just get the first batch of paper work through from my solicitor that im using on my first property and there are some charges that i wasn't aware of. The whole break down is as follows, the first section...

Fees £800
Completion fee £50
Land Transaction Return Form £85

and then there's another section that they say they have to make a number of payments to the government and others which include....

Land Charges Search £4
Land Registry fee £135
Land Registry Search £3
Search bundle (local & drainage) £221.50

Are these charges the norm and do they seem to be reasonable, the main one im miffed about is the 'search bundle (local & drainage)' surely this would fall under what the surveyors would do?

Also they have an optional charge which is for protection against fraud from fraudsters transferring ownership of the property into their own name without the real owners knowledge, basically a restriction is registered against the title of the property, so for the transfer to go ahead they would need a certificate signed by a conveyance to confirm that the person is actual the person who owns the property.

I have never heard of this before, they say if the registration of the restriction takes place at the same time as registration of my ownership of the property then i will not incur the statutory registration fee of £50 and their fee for the preparing and submission for the restriction for registration is £100 +VAT.

Is this an important protection to take out at all or should i not bother with it?

Levs01

Land charges (searches) are all normal and about average.

I am not sure on the cover as its not something we have been offered or thought about. To change the name on the land reg you have to fill in an ID1 form (among others) that has to be certified by a solicitor or member of land reg office and you have to produce a passport or picture driving licence as proof of ID. It can definitely all be faked but its not an easy thing to do.

edit to add, it may be easy for someone in the know but its not an average Jo type of thing to do.

G_M

lettucekl wrote: »

Have just get the first batch of paper work through from my solicitor
Is this a quote? Or have you already instructed the solicitor?
that im using on my first property and there are some charges that i wasn't aware of. The whole break down is as follows, the first section...

Fees £800 average - how did it comare with the other 3 quotes?
Completion fee £50 rip-off. should be included in the £800, not an extra
Land Transaction Return Form £85 rip-off. should be included in the £800, not an extra

and then there's another section that they say they have to make a number of payments to the government and others which include....

Land Charges Search £4 Standard. Out of their control
Land Registry fee £135 Standard. Out of their control
Land Registry Search £3 Standard. Out of their control
Search bundle (local & drainage) £221.50 Varies depending on the local authority, but out of their control

Are these charges the norm and do they seem to be reasonable, the main one im miffed about is the 'search bundle (local & drainage)' surely this would fall under what the surveyors would do?
No it is nothing to do with a property survey.

Also they have an optional charge which is for protection against fraud from fraudsters transferring ownership of the property into their own name without the real owners knowledge, basically a restriction is registered against the title of the property, so for the transfer to go ahead they would need a certificate signed by a conveyance to confirm that the person is actual the person who owns the property.
there have been some high profile cases in the last few years. Very few so a small risk, but the amounts of money involved are high (ie the value of the property), so it's an insurance to consider. I've no experience as this sems new, but might be worth googling to understand better.

I have never heard of this before, they say if the registration of the restriction takes place at the same time as registration of my ownership of the property then i will not incur the statutory registration fee of £50 and their fee for the preparing and submission for the restriction for registration is £100 +VAT.
Seems fair

Is this an important protection to take out at all or should i not bother with it?

As above. Hard to advise.

Freecall

lettucekl wrote: »

Also they have an optional charge which is for protection against fraud from fraudsters transferring ownership of the property into their own name without the real owners knowledge

Why not simply set up an HMLR alert? You will then get an email should anyone make a search or attempt to lodge an application on your property.

It's efficient, automatic and most importantly free.

https://propertyalert.landregistry.gov.uk/

:beer:

lettucekl

Thanks for the input.

Reading the information i received it would seem the 'Land Transaction Return Form' can actual be filled out by myself, is this true and has anyone done this?.

As it would seem its a 70 question questionnaire and it actual says on one of the forms i am to provide them with the relevant information to complete the return so if i have to provide them the info in the first place i might as well fill the Land Transaction Return Form myself and save myself the £85!?....or is it not as simple as that?

davidmcn

lettucekl wrote: »

Thanks for the input.

Reading the information i received it would seem the 'Land Transaction Return Form' can actual be filled out by myself, is this true and has anyone done this?.

As it would seem its a 70 question questionnaire and it actual says on one of the forms i am to provide them with the relevant information to complete the return so if i have to provide them the info in the first place i might as well fill the Land Transaction Return Form myself and save myself the £85!?....or is it not as simple as that?

In theory you could do that if you're a cash buyer - but if you're buying with a mortgage then the solicitor has a responsibility to the lender to ensure a valid return is submitted and any tax paid.

G_M

It used to be a simple form - around 2 pages. When HMRC made it more complicated, some less scrupulous conveyancers (especially those trying to quote low basic conveyancing fees to attreact clients) took the opportunity to charge seperately for it - often hiding this 'extra' in small print.

It is now a more complex form, but with the associated guide a reasonably intelligent person could complete it.

But come to that, all conveyancing could be completed by a reasonaby intelligent person, given a good guide/book, and time.

But as david points out, a mortage lender, if there is one involved, will insist on a conveyancer doing both.

davidmcn

G_M wrote: »

It used to be a simple form - around 2 pages.

Was there even a form in England? In Scotland we just sent the deed and a cheque to the Stamp Office.

Remember that when SDLT was introduced, they hadn't got around to any sort of online facility, so what had to be (manually) completed was a fairly cumbersome tax return - I think unreasonable to have expected solicitors to simply absorb the cost of the extra time involved without increasing the fee somehow (as well as the hours spent hanging on HMRC's helpline trying to get anyone to explain what the hell we were meant to be doing).

Obviously less justifiable now that the systems are a bit more streamlined and fee structures have changed.

Fosterdog

How does that quote compare to quotes from other solicitors in your area?

I bought my first house less than a month ago and the solicitor fees came to £750 for everything give or take a few pounds, that was all of the searches and land registry fees included. They did advise originally that depending on what the searches returned and any other work that cropped up we were quoted £720-£1050 which came in at almost identical quotes to two other firms. We were lucky that there was only one extra needed at £30 over the minimum quote.

Bonfire_Bride

Get quotes. They only take approx 5 minutes on the phone. We received 4 quotes and there was quite a difference between prices.

G_M

davidmcn wrote: »

.... ..... I think unreasonable to have expected solicitors to simply absorb the cost of the extra time involved without increasing the fee somehow.

I have no issue with solicitor's charging a reasonable fee for the work they do. Indeed, I've never understood why estate agents get paid 5, maybe 10 times as much as solicitors (but that's a different issue).

My gripe is that paying SDLT is a legally required part of the conveyancing process, and should therefore not be charged as an extra. The basic fee for conveyancing should include all the required work, and should be calculated accordingly.

Since the freeing up of the conveyancing 'market' (advertising is now allowed, and conveyancing 'warehouses' can compete with solicitors firms), the basic 'quote' a company can advertise has become all-important in attracting customers who do not realise till later that other costs will be levied.