Should I pay PCN

Northlakes

No not that!
Take your time. You're telling PE the keeper was the driver and you don't want to do that.
Refer to the driver in the third party terms only.
PE are only interested in having from you two things, your money and information that makes it easier for them to get it off you!
The regulars on here will tell you that PE will say or do anything to extract that money so the fewer the words the better, so you don't drop yourself in it.
PE also watch these threads.

Just get the POPLA code from PE and then read the winning POPLA appeals to construct a good appeal.

Refer to this thread won on grace periods the winning POPLA appeal will be posted up
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5205259

AJRawlins

Ok so I have edited my above appeal, thanks to Northlakes for pointing out that I would have shot myself in the foot, and hope this is now more acceptable:


Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No.

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car as I believe it to have been unfairly issued and I will complain to the landowner about the matter if it is not cancelled.

The driver has informed me that they indeed did enter the car park on the date and times mentioned, but your unremarkable and obscure signs were not visible by the driver on entrance, and the terms are not readable to drivers before they park. During the period of time on the car park the driver has informed me that they had to park the vehicle before they were able to find a sign with your terms and conditions on to read, of which the driver has informed me the small print at the bottom of the sign is difficult to read, upon eventually being able to read your terms and conditions the driver then decided not to remain and left the car park.

Further more, I understand you do not own the car park and you have given me no information about your policy with the landowner or on site businesses, as to the validity of your signs or ANPR planning permission. So please supply that policy as required under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013. I believe the driver may well be eligible for cancellation and you have omitted clear information about the process for complaints including a geographical address of the landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully,


Keeper of vehicle

Northlakes

That will do and submit by E-Mail no later than day 23 from date of PCN. As sure as night follows day your initial appeal to PE will be rejected so don't get frustrated about this. Take a screenshot so you have proof of submission.

Keep a well ordered file of everything that you have done.

Start reading on here and Pepipoo grace period cases and base your forthcoming POPLA appeal only on recent winning appeals.
Meanwhile find out the landowner and give them some grief, check on your local planning website if they have advertisement consent for the signage and PP for the cameras. The lack of permissions gives a further appeal point at POPLA.
Read and understand the BPA CoP for its members and you will then get a feel of what you are trying to unpick at POPLA.

Coupon-mad

Was the PCN sent within 14 days of the event?

Does the PCN include a paragraph lower down, about 29 days and 'keeper liability'?

AJRawlins

One more thing kind people, is a sign that says "Patron parking only" a forbidding sign thus no contract entered into.

Coupon-mad

Yep, that is correct.

Can you answer my questions above your post? It is always worth us checking that a person has a 'POFA' PCN or a (rarer for ParkingEye but we do see them) non-POFA worded one.

AJRawlins

Coupon-mad to answer your previous post yes it was received in the 14 day period
and yes warned about that after 29 days from date given...blah blah.blah......under paragraph 9(2)(f) of schedule 4 of pofa 2012

Northlakes

AJRawlins wrote: »

One more thing kind people, is a sign that says "Patron parking only" a forbidding sign thus no contract entered into.

Not sure on this point as a passenger in the vehicle was a patron but possibly the driver or the keeper wasn't!

Coupon-mad

Northlakes wrote: »

Not sure on this point as a passenger in the vehicle was a patron but possibly the driver or the keeper wasn't!

Indeed but the sign doesn't differentiate and the car was being used to transport a patron. And as your son ''went inside to cancel a membership, not being a driver he knew nothing off the fact that you have to supply your car details when entering the gym'' then ParkingEye have failed to put the required signage and keypad clearly in DW Sports/the gym entrance.

If no-one mentioned it to him and there were no obvious, conspicuous signs on the desk telling him about entering the VRN of the car he arrived - and the driver did not park near a legible sign and didn't see them as there are gaps on the car park that are unsigned - then PE have failed to communicate a contract and failed to create any 'obligation' that was knowingly breached.

In the Beavis case it was held that Mr Beavis was bound to have seen the 'very clear' signs. Not here then!

AJRawlins

Sorry now I am confused again, so do I go with the advice above or the appeal i had already written out about grace period.
Also after reading yet more threads on here I come across one mentioning date served. The event took place on 01/09 and date of issue on NTK is 08/09 and I recived the NTK on 13/09