Should I pay PCN

AJRawlins

I have just received a PCN from parking eye and would appreciate any advice on this. I have read the newbie thread how to dispute and appeal and am considering going to the manager of business the driver was parked outside and complaining to them and also going online to parking eye and disputing the charge. The business in question is DW Sports and why I am asking advice is because my son went inside to cancel a membership, not being a driver he knew nothing off the fact that you have to supply your car details when entering the gym.
I did not notice the signs on the day but have been back to the site and it does state the car park is for patrons only so I was there with a patron could I use this in my defence.

Northlakes

Yes complaining to the manager of DW Sports is an essential first step and then read this NEWBIES thread which has been written by the experts.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822

AJRawlins

Thanks for the reply and one other thing regarding these NTK letters because on the letter it shows the image of the vehicle arriving and exiting the car park, has anyone ever argued that the images don't actually show the vehicle parked up at all and that they should have to prove the vehicle was taking a space up and not just a bad driver who was unable to manouvere their car into a space so gave up and left the car park? After all the vehicle was only there for 10 minutes and may not have parked.

Umkomaas

AJRawlins wrote: »

Thanks for the reply and one other thing regarding these NTK letters because on the letter it shows the image of the vehicle arriving and exiting the car park, has anyone ever argued that the images don't actually show the vehicle parked up at all and that they should have to prove the vehicle was taking a space up and not just a bad driver who was unable to manouvere their car into a space so gave up and left the car park? After all the vehicle was only there for 10 minutes and may not have parked.

Many cases, but you'll need to do a forum search ('Search this Forum' and select 'Show Posts') to find them - there's dozens upon dozens of threads flying through the forum each day and keeping tabs on each and every one for linking to any and every query is impossible.

Also check out 'Grace Periods' on the forum as well as reading the BPA Code of Practice (which, according to the Supreme Court, is effectively binding on operators) to understand what it says about 'Grace Periods'.

Look out too for the difference in (ANPR) timed entry, time of actual parking and leaving the parking space and the (ANPR) timed exit.

Have you read the newbies FAQ sticky?

AJRawlins

Hi back again, so i have been in touch with DW Sports facilities asking them to contact PE to cancel the PCN and this is an e-mail I have received from them.

Dear Member,

Thank you for your email.

As there are sufficiant signage at all DW Sports Fitness facilities, any parking ticket issues will have to be taken up with Parking Eye.

We are unable to address this issue for you as DW Sports do not own the carparks, but all the contact details for Parking Eye will be on their correspondence.


Kind Regards
DW Sports Customer Services

So I am going to request who the land owner is but think i read in another thread something about PE having to prove they have a contract with the land owner to be able to issue the PCN is this correct.

Northlakes

A few more details are needed from you.

How long were you on the car park? Was the NTK received on time i.e. within 14 days. Is the POFA paragraph on the NTK.

PE do slip up so you have to detect their flaws?

If DW won't help what about the property company owning the site.
Which site was it as you can trace the owner from the internet?

AJRawlins

According to their timings recorded on the ANPR images time spent on car park was 11 minutes and I know in the BPA code of practice that there should be a grace period of at least 10 minutes, As for the NTK yes received in time and quotes the POFA.
Regardind DW I have asked them to supply me with land owners details.
One of the points in my appeal will be the fact that they cannot justify this sum for a matter of 1 minute surely even a judge will laugh at this.

Northlakes

Read this thread where CM gives a plausible rebuff to PE's try on.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5470250

Don't forget though the do's and don'ts in the NEWBIES thread about appealing as keeper etc.
Also site location, has PE got planning consent for the ANPR cameras and signage? It's just another useful appeal point at POPLA.

Also just remember your appeal to PE is just to get the POPLA code, nothing else. PE will turn you down as they're only after your money.
Save your main appeal points for POPLA and just follow the NEWBIES thread.

AJRawlins

Thanks Northlakes I will take your advice on board and omit certain things I was going to place in my appeal,but if you could just bear with me a little longer.
I have returned to the car park and taken photo's of the signs which state and I quote
"Gym members must enter their full, correct vehicle registration details into the terminal at reception upon arrival to obtain a 4 hour parking permit."
Could I use the pictures as I have been into the reception area and there is not a terminal in there so the signs are incorrect, it even states this on the NTK.
I ask because would that be implying who the driver was, even though the photo's were take after returning to the car park to check the signs?.

Northlakes

Don't over think this. In PE's eyes you have broken their made up terms and conditions as displayed on the signage. What happened on the day is totally irrelevant. The 'driver' happened to enter the car park and left in 11 minutes without entering the VRN in the machine.
You are challenging PE on legalities and their compliance with the BPA code of practice nothing more.
Your appeal to PE needs to be as the initial letter in blue in the NEWBIES thread.
Save your arguments for POPLA where you stand a very good chance of winning if you follow to the letter the process.

AJRawlins

Would this be ok for my appeal or is there too much information included or asked for.

Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No.

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car and I will complain to the landowner about the matter if it is not cancelled.

The driver has not entered into a contract

Further more, I understand you do not own the car park and you have given me no information about your policy with the landowner or on site businesses, as to the validity of your signs or ANPR planning permission. So please supply that policy as required under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013. I believe the driver may well be eligible for cancellation and you have omitted clear information about the process for complaints including a geographical address of the landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully,


Keeper of vehicle