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Unfair employment term?
Comments
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Why not?
.....
It could be argued that no service is ever perfect. Something, however good, could always have been done better.
When somebody is selling and is plainly on commission, my reaction as a consumer would be to assume that the maximum possible sale value is their highest priority rather than long term customer satisfaction. To be honest the internal matters of how they get paid and what earns or loses them commission is not really my concern.
So, the circumstances the OP describes are, in my view, a poor way to run a business but as I said earlier perfectly lawful.0 -
Have I got the maths right here?
You earn a flat salary of £12k so that is £1k per month.
If you sell 10 cars in a month there is the potential to earn a bonus of 10 x £150 so that is £1,500 per month to add to your salary which then gives £2,500 per month.
BUT for each of your customers who you as even 9/10, because this is not 10/10, you are deducted £250 so potentially 10 x £250 = £2,500.
Have I got that right? So essentially the deductions made would be equal to the maximum you'd earn based on 10 customers? Therefore you'd have worked a month for nothing?
And if you happened to sell 15 cars in a month it'd be salary of £1k plus bonus of 2,250 making £3, 250 but if all of those 15 rated you as 9/10 you'd be deducted 15 lots of £250 so £3,750? Meaning you'd actually owe £500 as your wage and bonus wouldn't cover it?
Even commission-based workers are entitled to the NMW.
This is correct.
We are deducted £250 PER survey returned that is below national average. National average stands at 92% so anything less than 10
Is deduction without a cap on deductions either.
Who does one report unethical business Practise eg low pay for Hermes workers to? In a system that is supposed to be independent via manufacturer to customer, and he fact that I have done the work and used the hours. It could at least be if there is a complaint or if he customer says he is completely not satisfied because of map Practise or rudeness or some other form of terrible service... This should be deductible.
But the reason this has been done is because senior management get paid bonuses based on customers being happy so they penalize this so that the money is then redistributed back. But none of it is in the salesmans control as it is the customer who fills in the survey by email. And just one wrong click can be £250 and you can't even question it or appeal it.
Eg I had a customer who is happy with everything. The vehicle made no profit and £100 earned. I spent 3 hours initially and then post sale paperwork and preparation and then 2 hours to go through the entire vehicle controls and last bit of paperwork. I called two days later to make sure he is ok and he was grateful for the deal we did.
He answered every question with COMPLELETY SATISFIED aside from the first question which is just VERY satisfied.
He saved £3000 and the company made a loss to dig him out of his overdriven car which he did over mileage and had discounted further the new replacement nicer car.
I'll never get that time back and I have rent to pay and children who need to eat. Our lives as salespeople who try to do a decent job are very much still put in the past light of the old days of abuse and cheating sales people when all we want to do is serve people well and be paid for what we do.0 -
If people don't fill in the surveys then there is no consequence.
If people buy a used car there is no survey.
There is a survey on all new cars.
A customer is only emailed a survey once.0 -
What I did (and recommend) is you don't fill out the feedback form straightaway.
Drive around for a few weeks and make sure all is ok. I was contacted twice by the sales chap (and reminded twice on collection day) to fill out the form, so I knew they were paid on this commission structure (this is AC I presume btw?)
after the second time, no issues arose and I was happy to fill it out. I'm still under their warranty, but you know that issues would be fixed very quickly if the commission was on the line.
Not sure what AC is?0 -
Why not?
.....Undervalued wrote: »It could be argued that no service is ever perfect. Something, however good, could always have been done better.
When somebody is selling and is plainly on commission, my reaction as a consumer would be to assume that the maximum possible sale value is their highest priority rather than long term customer satisfaction. To be honest the internal matters of how they get paid and what earns or loses them commission is not really my concern.
So, the circumstances the OP describes are, in my view, a poor way to run a business but as I said earlier perfectly lawful.
Yes that's it exactly, I will tick 'excellent' for some things but generally 'very good' more often. Although as I said, I didn't believe he wouldn't get paid and I was never chased for the feedback either. First time I've ever bought a new car, will know for the future. I always presumed any commission was always either a set amount per car of percentage of selling price.
Guess it's cos I take so many holidays and got sick of the customer satisfaction nonsense they would hassle you to fill in constantly...0 -
ultimatefighter wrote: »This is correct.
We are deducted £250 PER survey returned that is below national average. National average stands at 92% so anything less than 10
Is deduction without a cap on deductions either.
Who does one report unethical business Practise eg low pay for Hermes workers to? In a system that is supposed to be independent via manufacturer to customer, and he fact that I have done the work and used the hours. It could at least be if there is a complaint or if he customer says he is completely not satisfied because of map Practise or rudeness or some other form of terrible service... This should be deductible.
But the reason this has been done is because senior management get paid bonuses based on customers being happy so they penalize this so that the money is then redistributed back. But none of it is in the salesmans control as it is the customer who fills in the survey by email. And just one wrong click can be £250 and you can't even question it or appeal it.
Eg I had a customer who is happy with everything. The vehicle made no profit and £100 earned. I spent 3 hours initially and then post sale paperwork and preparation and then 2 hours to go through the entire vehicle controls and last bit of paperwork. I called two days later to make sure he is ok and he was grateful for the deal we did.
He answered every question with COMPLELETY SATISFIED aside from the first question which is just VERY satisfied.
He saved £3000 and the company made a loss to dig him out of his overdriven car which he did over mileage and had discounted further the new replacement nicer car.
I'll never get that time back and I have rent to pay and children who need to eat. Our lives as salespeople who try to do a decent job are very much still put in the past light of the old days of abuse and cheating sales people when all we want to do is serve people well and be paid for what we do.
As stated previously, unless the scheme reduces your pay below the national minimum wage it is not unlawful.
It may or may not be "ethical", whatever that means in this context, but that is irrelevant.
Beyond that it is purely a contractual matter and your only options are to try and negotiate better terms or find another job.
Sorry.0 -
Undervalued wrote: »As stated previously, unless the scheme reduces your pay below the national minimum wage it is not unlawful.
It may or may not be "ethical", whatever that means in this context, but that is irrelevant.
Beyond that it is purely a contractual matter and your only options are to try and negotiate better terms or find another job.
Sorry.
The OP has now confirmed there is no cap on deductions, so in theory it could take wage below NMW - see post at 1.28pm today where s/he says "We are deducted £250 PER survey returned that is below national average. National average stands at 92% so anything less than 10 Is deduction without a cap on deductions either"
OP some advice on you gov if youre; not being paid NMW (can't post link, but a quick google will bring it up).
If you *are* being paid NMW, then I don't think there's much you can do - legally anyway.
On the flip side though, if national average is 92% then the surveys returned must all be quite positive so this is a hypothetical issue?0 -
The OP has now confirmed there is no cap on deductions, so in theory it could take wage below NMW - see post at 1.28pm today where s/he says "We are deducted £250 PER survey returned that is below national average. National average stands at 92% so anything less than 10 Is deduction without a cap on deductions either"
OP some advice on you gov if youre; not being paid NMW (can't post link, but a quick google will bring it up).
If you *are* being paid NMW, then I don't think there's much you can do - legally anyway.
On the flip side though, if national average is 92% then the surveys returned must all be quite positive so this is a hypothetical issue?
OK, but unless or until it does there is not much that can be done beyond trying to negotiate a better deal.0 -
Other than the obvious Air Conditioning .... a very well-known motor trade company/dealership with branches all over the UK.
Due to their (often) appalling after-sales service they're colloquially known as Arnold Shark.
Oh! No it wasn't. Must be running similar practices with other dealers. :cool:0
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