Unfair employment term?

YouAsked

ultimatefighter wrote: »

I work for a popular brand of motor car just outside of Barking.

We are paid £12,000 as a basic wage which is under minimum wage because we have a commission based system for pay which pays based on how many vehicles are retailed to customers. Retailing a vehicle takes time and involves far more than taking some money and giving some keys.

If a customer gives any score for the survey they receive (which is up to them to score as they wish) other than 100% there is a deduction from wages of £250 per customer who doesn't give a perfect 10 out of 10 score.

We don't get paid £250 per car we sell. Usually between 100 and 150. If all 10 customers theoretically returned a bad score I would be paying to work there.

Is this not an unfair term in a contract of employment? It did not exist upon commencing with the company but was put in place from this month.

Have I got the maths right here?
You earn a flat salary of £12k so that is £1k per month.

If you sell 10 cars in a month there is the potential to earn a bonus of 10 x £150 so that is £1,500 per month to add to your salary which then gives £2,500 per month.

BUT for each of your customers who you as even 9/10, because this is not 10/10, you are deducted £250 so potentially 10 x £250 = £2,500.

Have I got that right? So essentially the deductions made would be equal to the maximum you'd earn based on 10 customers? Therefore you'd have worked a month for nothing?

And if you happened to sell 15 cars in a month it'd be salary of £1k plus bonus of 2,250 making £3, 250 but if all of those 15 rated you as 9/10 you'd be deducted 15 lots of £250 so £3,750? Meaning you'd actually owe £500 as your wage and bonus wouldn't cover it?

Even commission-based workers are entitled to the NMW.

Guest101

jobbingmusician wrote: »

It says he TOOK them - maybe they were lying on the desk?

Ok why would you leave your car keys lying on a desk in a car showroom?

Guest101

YouAsked wrote: »

Have I got the maths right here?
You earn a flat salary of £12k so that is £1k per month.

If you sell 10 cars in a month there is the potential to earn a bonus of 10 x £150 so that is £1,500 per month to add to your salary which then gives £2,500 per month.

BUT for each of your customers who you as even 9/10, because this is not 10/10, you are deducted £250 so potentially 10 x £250 = £2,500.

Have I got that right? So essentially the deductions made would be equal to the maximum you'd earn based on 10 customers? Therefore you'd have worked a month for nothing?

And if you happened to sell 15 cars in a month it'd be salary of £1k plus bonus of 2,250 making £3, 250 but if all of those 15 rated you as 9/10 you'd be deducted 15 lots of £250 so £3,750? Meaning you'd actually owe £500 as your wage and bonus wouldn't cover it?

Even commission-based workers are entitled to the NMW.

Yes so it's deducted down to the NMW

YouAsked

Guest101 wrote: »

Yes so it's deducted down to the NMW

Seems odd though as effectively it is a disincentive to sell more cars - there's no way every customer would give 10/10. I'd have needed a foot massage, chocolates on tap and offer to pick my kids up from school for 3 weeks! And the more cars you sell (so the more effort you put in!) you're more at risk of this deduction - whereas if you sold one car and bust a gut doing so, you'd be better off?

shortcrust

Guest101 wrote: »

Why did you give him your keys?

He asked if I was interested in part exchange, to which I replied "maybe". He said "well if you let me have your keys I'll have a look at your car while you look around". Five minutes later when I realised that all the cars were massively over priced I said something along the lines of "thanks I think I'll leave it, can I have my keys?" which was followed by the face to face version of trying to cancel a Sky subscription.

shortcrust

YouAsked wrote: »

Seems odd though as effectively it is a disincentive to sell more cars - there's no way every customer would give 10/10. I'd have needed a foot massage, chocolates on tap and offer to pick my kids up from school for 3 weeks! And the more cars you sell (so the more effort you put in!) you're more at risk of this deduction - whereas if you sold one car and bust a gut doing so, you'd be better off?

The OP's wording's a bit confusing but I think the deduction is taken from the 250 bonus rather than the basic salary. So they might get 100 for a 7/10 sale rather than the maximum 250. The other interpretation is that 250 gets deducted from the OP's basic wage for each non 10/10 sale, but that doesn't make sense with the rest of the post.

SandC

I feel a bit bad now as when I bought my new car early last year the sales guy urged me to fill in the survey otherwise he 'wouldn't get paid'. I never bothered filling it in. I thought he was just spinning me a line.

I would have done, and given a good score (but never 100%), but for the very last minute when I was receiving the new car and he said he had a surprise for me that he'd thrown in.... then pointed excitedly to the floor mats. To which I pointed out that I had paid for them as he had convinced me I really, really needed them. He blustered a bit and finally said 'er well they must have been the more basic ones'....... lying toad. So close mate, so close.

But back on point, this is really unfair - I presume they treat no feedback at all as negative? Mind you, I was never contacted again and asked to complete it.

Guest101

YouAsked wrote: »

Seems odd though as effectively it is a disincentive to sell more cars - there's no way every customer would give 10/10. I'd have needed a foot massage, chocolates on tap and offer to pick my kids up from school for 3 weeks! And the more cars you sell (so the more effort you put in!) you're more at risk of this deduction - whereas if you sold one car and bust a gut doing so, you'd be better off?

Not when you fail to hit your KPIs and find yourself frozen out / sacked

Guest101

SandC wrote: »

I feel a bit bad now as when I bought my new car early last year the sales guy urged me to fill in the survey otherwise he 'wouldn't get paid'. I never bothered filling it in. I thought he was just spinning me a line.

I would have done, and given a good score (but never 100%), but for the very last minute when I was receiving the new car and he said he had a surprise for me that he'd thrown in.... then pointed excitedly to the floor mats. To which I pointed out that I had paid for them as he had convinced me I really, really needed them. He blustered a bit and finally said 'er well they must have been the more basic ones'....... lying toad. So close mate, so close.

But back on point, this is really unfair - I presume they treat no feedback at all as negative? Mind you, I was never contacted again and asked to complete it.

What I did (and recommend) is you don't fill out the feedback form straightaway.


Drive around for a few weeks and make sure all is ok. I was contacted twice by the sales chap (and reminded twice on collection day) to fill out the form, so I knew they were paid on this commission structure (this is AC I presume btw?)


after the second time, no issues arose and I was happy to fill it out. I'm still under their warranty, but you know that issues would be fixed very quickly if the commission was on the line.

Gavin83

SandC wrote: »

I would have done, and given a good score (but never 100%) but for the very last minute when I was receiving the new car and he said he had a surprise for me that he'd thrown in.... then pointed excitedly to the floor mats. To which I pointed out that I had paid for them as he had convinced me I really, really needed them. He blustered a bit and finally said 'er well they must have been the more basic ones'....... lying toad. So close mate, so close.

Why not?

.....