Lidl Athena PCN 2 visits counted as one

onegear

So I've received a PCN from Athena ANPR Ltd for parking in a Lidl car park for longer than an hour and a half but they're treating 2 separate visits on the same day as one long 2 hour visit for the purposes of their in and out photos.

The first visit was for at most 1 or 2 minutes, we saw how full the car park was & left without parking to come back later when less busy. The PCN uses the photo of us going in from this visit as the entry time.

The second visit was about 1 hour & 20 minutes later, this is when we parked up & actually did our shopping which took about 40 minutes (can't find the receipt though). The PCN uses the photo of us leaving from this visit as the exit time.

Can I (should I?) ask them to check their records for the missing 1st exit & 2nd entry that would hopefully render the PCN invalid or would they argue that it doesn't mater because I'd returned within 2 hours (even though I did not park in the first visit)?

Athena say they're an IPC member so (assuming it's pointless to try & dispute their mistaking of 2 visits for one) is the IPC template from the newbies thread still the best one to use in this case?

Umkomaas

Email Ronny Gottschlich Managing Director, he cancels loads of Athena tickets.

Ronny.Gottschlich@lidl.co.uk

While you haven't retained receipts, did you pay by credit/debit card? If so send a redacted card statement to prove patronage. If not, if you give them the approx time of going through the till and the amount you spent, with a general list of what you purchased they may be able to look this up on their system (Aldi do this from time to time for parking tickets).

Are you a regular Lidl shopper? Do you have previous card statements if you don't have one for the day in question - if so send a redacted sample to prove you are one of their regular customers.

Just so you know, unlike other supermarkets who just outsource the persecution of their customers to PPCs who take all the money from the PCNs, it is understood that Lidl actually cream off the bulk of the PCN 'windfall' and pay Athena a smaller facilitation fee for processing and pursuing the PCN. I thought that might help you know the sort of company you are providing your custom to.

In parallel you need to send an initial appeal to Athena, from post #1 of the newbies FAQ sticky (the IPC version) which shows that you've entered into the process of appeal to the PPC. Whether you go beyond that to the IAS is your choice, read the pros and cons in the sticky. Most believe it not worth the effort.

Guys_Dad

Have you got an Android phone and Google Maps? You can check your timeline on that for the day which can show if you have visited twice, assuming the GPS was on.

onegear

Thanks for the responses, It's actually my recently turned 70 mum who does her shopping there I just drive & do the lifting! I take her usually on Thursdays and had the PCN waiting for me when I got home after today's visit so we've got her receipt for this week at least, she prefers to pay cash unfortunately so no card statements for earlier visits.

For the letter to the MD I'll include a scan of the PCN & today's receipt, the summary of what happened from my 1st post here, mention that she's a regular customer & how much this has upset her etc. Is there anything else that I should include?

For the appeal letter to Athena is it better to email, post or use their online form?

Google maps timeline was the first thing I checked but the first visit just shows as driving because we never stopped the car, just went round the car park & back out again. It does show me as being at home for most of the time I was supposed to be in their car park but not sure how I can share other than screenshots?

Coupon-mad

Don't say or imply who drives the car. Not in the complaint, nor in the challenge.

If you can email the challenge, do it that way or online (see the back of the stupid PCN for how).

Redx

bear in mind todays statement on the news

Ronny Gottschlich has been replaced as chief executive of Lidl Great Britain by 34 year-old Christian Hartnagel.

Coupon-mad

Christian Hartnagel will soon have to learn about the harassment Lidl directs at its customers then! Maybe he might take notice. His email should follow the same format as Ronny (and both names should be copied in, because Ronny's email is no doubt already fielded by PR people).

onegear

Thanks again for all the advice on this! Am I correct in thinking the appeal to the PPC is more of a formality to fulfill my obligation of response & to string them along for long enough for Lidl to (hopefully) cancel it? If so,is the basic template fine without any editing aside from putting in Athena's details at the top?

Regarding complaint email, is the below sufficiently third persony? I think I might have gotten a bit carried away & emotional with the middle bit! :mad:

Dear Sirs

I'm writing to complain about threatening letters issued on your behalf by Athena ANPR Ltd.

I have received the attached letter, and am writing this complaint as the registered keeper of the vehicle in question. The driver has provided receipts from multiple visits to the store in question which are also attached.

I ask that this PCN be cancelled by you because it is invalid for the reasons outlined below and also that you consider the fact that by partnering with such opportunist companies in this manner you are preying on the weakest of your customers who are either unable or unwilling to fight back.

What would your response be if an elderly relative came to you worried and confused that they've been "fined" for parking at your supermarket where they shop in every week? I would hope outrage & dismay that the company you are responsible for is the reason for this anguish & upset caused to a family member.

Wouldn't you rather be seen as the good guy supermarket looking out for their customers rather than as a part of the evil supermarket oligarchy that pursues their own customers through intimidation for punitive charges because they had the audacity to think they could park at your store whilst shopping there?! Now that would be a true #LidlSurprise!

Moving on to the why reason the attached PCN is invalid, the driver asserts that 2 separate non infringing visits on the same day are being treated as one due to a known flaw in your system, dubbed "double dipping" by the British Parking Association, and is therefore invalid.

The first visit began with the driver entering your site at XX:XX:XX as shown on the PCN entry photo however, due to limited spaces available at that time the driver left immediately without parking.

The second visit began approximately X hour(s) & X minute(s) later when the driver re-entered the car park, proceeded to shop in your store and left at XX:XX:XX as shown on the PCN exit photo.

The total time for both of these visits was approximately just over X hour(s).

Unfortunately a receipt from the visit in question was not kept but in the attached you can see the receipt from the driver for the week preceding it and the week following it.

Again, I ask that you contact Athena ANPR Ltd regarding this matter and instruct them to cancel this PCN. I look forward to your response.

Yours faithfully,

Fruitcake

I would add the information that your GPS/'phone shows that you, the keeper were elsewhere so cannot possibly have been at the scam-shop during most of the period for which you are being scammed. Please check your diary so that you can be called as a witness should this not be cancelled and lead to a scam court case.

Other words are available.

Umkomaas

I like that. Send it off.

The appeal to Athena is purely to show that you have engaged in the process, should this ever get to court, you are not seen as being unreasonable by ignoring their 'offer' to consider an appeal. It's not specifically to buy any time while awaiting a Lidl response.

The chances of Athena proceeding to court are vanishingly unlikely; I'd hazard a guess that Lidl wouldn't allow this to happen as it would immediately expose publicly that they have got their hands firmly in their customers' pockets through this grubby arrangement with Athena. Nasty, nasty!

Here's Athena's court record over the past couple of years:

http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/Athena_ANPR.html

Yep, over a quarter of a million tickets issued and not one court case ever prosecuted. On average, across the PPC network, only 60% of tickets are paid. So around 100,000 tickets unpaid - and no court case yet. Can't guarantee their future intentions, but .......

And a bit of other background information on them for you:

https://bmpa.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/203568802-Athena-ANPR-Ltd

HTH

Coupon-mad

Thanks again for all the advice on this! Am I correct in thinking the appeal to the PPC is more of a formality to fulfill my obligation of response & to string them along for long enough for Lidl to (hopefully) cancel it?

If so,is the basic template fine without any editing aside from putting in Athena's details at the top?

Yes and yes, this is the exact plan and it works. Lidl will cancel.