Help With Boundary issue Please

The_Shadow

Last year we purchased a house with registered land quite clearly shown on our Land Registry title plan. The title plan shows a line boundary between our properties following the contours of my neighbours drive from his house to the end of his drive.
A year before we moved in my neighbour moved the boundary over by about 1 meter onto my land in accordance with a developers site transfer plan which shows a boundary line which differs from the filled Land Registry Ordnance Survey drawing.
I am sure a Land Registry title plan would take precedence over developers transfer plan. My neighbour is adament that the land belongs to him as per his transfer plan showing a red pen boundary line marked up at time of purchase.
Inciently his filed Land Registary Title plan shows the boundary i the same position as my filed plan ( folowing the contours of his drive )
Naturally I am in dispute with him over this matter I am not sure of my legal position if I take him to court to have the land reinstated, do I have any claim for compensation from solicitors or Land Registry for not recording land correctly or loss of land.
I am just not sure where i stand on this matter. Any help or advice would be much appreciated

moneyistooshorttomention

I would have thought the Land Registry plan takes precedence if there is a "difference of opinion".

Hopefully the Land Registry rep. will be back on site tomorrow and might be able to give you some idea on that. They seem to come on here Monday-Friday.

The one thing I am wondering is whether your neighbour misunderstands the "general boundary rule". As I recall - it is to effect of the boundaries (as indicated by the Land Registry) are accurate to within 18" (ie rather than absolutely precisely to within 1"). So - if your neighbour is "grabbing" then he has basically tried for 2 x that 18" iyswim.

Other thought I have is that it's always possible for you to get a suitable surveyor (ask via RICS) in and they will do a more precise boundary (which I believe is still not 100% precise - but will be precise to within a tolerance of I think it's 4").

The_Shadow

I appreciate your comments, the boundary as indicated on both Land Registary plans is just 50mm wide concrete edging and follows the contour of my neighbours drive. We have been in touch with the RICS they gave me a contact for a surveyer but the survey would cost in the region of £750. I dont want to go down that route just at the moment. Hopefully the LR rep will be able to give some input.

moneyistooshorttomention

We'll await with interest what the LR Rep has to say then.

It's also my understanding that one of criteria that is used to determine where a boundary lies between neighbouring properties is what is visible "on the ground" (eg walls for instance). Concrete edging following contour of neighbours drive is something I would take myself as equalling the "something visible on the ground" and the combination of:
- my Title Plan
- their Title Plan
- that evidence visible "on the ground"

all matching up and saying that that is where the boundary lies is one I would translate into "That IS indeed where the boundary lies" from what you say and I would be after my land back.

I would be getting my evidence lined-up that the neighbour had only been using that bit of my land for a year - ie how do you know it's just a year (and not over 12 years) for instance? But I believe if the neighbour is after "adverse possession" of that part of your land that they would have to get their (and your) Title Plan changed and to do that they would have to apply to the Land Registry. Followed by the Land Registry asking you for your opinion on that.

But the LR Rep. will clarify whether that is so when they come on this thread.

Out of interest - what are they actually doing with that bit of your land? Are they trying to grab it, for instance, in order to have door opening space for any car that is on their drive?

The_Shadow

Yes i agree with your comment that the concrete edging being as evidence on the ground as to the position of the boundary.


The front gardens are all open plan on the estate, the guy just a wider drive thats why he has taken my land.


I need to clarify the time he has been using the land grab, i think it may be 2 to 3 years, its certainly not 12 years. They did mention adverse possession when i spoke to them but the title plans have not changed since the origional LR filed plans.


Just hope the LR rep comes on to give me an opinion,


Many Thanks

Freecall

HMLR site plan extracts are in themselves evidence of title. Unless there has been a mistake (which happens and can be put right) or there is some other substantial evidence to the contrary, the HMLR plan is definitive. The developers plan will just be considered as indicative.

Having said that, many HMLR plans are not in themselves that precise and that is where 'physical features on the ground' become relevant.

From what you say however, it would seem that your title plan is very clear. The whole adverse possession thing is a bit of a red herring as the way you describe it there is no chance whatsoever that there is an established use which has not been challenged.

The_Shadow

Many thanks for your responce you have backed up my thoughts. I think i better run it by Land Registary just to see if any mistakes have been made before i send out a solicitors letter sent out to my neighbour.

The_Shadow

Although boundary lines shown on a transfer plan are a legal document i dont think any boundary lines would take precidence over the Title plan as they are indicative only.

moneyistooshorttomention

No-one replied from Land Registry yet?

Hmmmm...


LAND REGISTRY.......coo...ee...

The_Shadow

I put another mesage up in the hope that the LR rep would pick it up.


I did phone the LR this morning the told me to write in if i think the Title plan is wrong.


I am the innocent party here, As far as i concearned the title plan is correct and i would not like it amending now after 35 years.


I can see my neighbours point he is going by the deds transfer plan which shows the boundary in a completley diffeernt position.


We are all only human and mistakes do happen, not sure whoes fault this one is, but we would not have bought the house with the boundary issue, If the boundary does remain in its current position it would devalue our house with the land taken off our front garden


Thanks for keeping in toutch to see this one through

Land_Registry

The Shadow - sorry for slow pick up re this one although I think you have largely covered it through the posts above and your call to us.

We would look at the OS details, the Plot transfers (your neighbour is referring to theirs) and the estate plan (if any) the builder would have supplied from the start.

We would then create a title plan for each plot as they were sold off so the title plan becomes the defining detail as far as the registered general boundaries are concerned.

The advice given to contact us to query is the right one and whilst you may be the injured party here an email to us would elicit a formal reply within a few days.

The alternative is to check your neighbour's title plan to see if they match re the red outlines adjoining. If they do then you have the details but need to then bear in mind that a 1m discrepancy is not going to be evident from the title plans so you may still need to discuss and agree a way forward.

If that is the case then the key is likely to be what was the original position re the boundary on the ground and what evidence have you (they) got to show how and when the change was made. If that is clear cut a solicitors letter may suffice. But the other key point is how far you or your neighbour are prepared to go on this. Every neighbour is different.

My recommendation would be to confirm with us that no mistake was made by us in registering the titles and go from there. I suspect we will cite general boundaries to you and then the general advice on boundaries. But best to ask so you have something in writing that you can then refer to as appropriate