Panasonic TVs for 1 pence

pierre5

Back in mid-Aug 07, the Panasonic E Shop was advertising a handful of products for sale at 1p plus delivery charge of £35. I didn't think this was too good to be true, since you can buy flights to Europe for 1p these days (so why not a TV) and decided it must be some sort of marketing ploy. I placed an order for 2 tvs.

The website took my credit card details, created on screen a receipt for me to print, and emailed me an order confirmation confirming the price, delivery charge, model number etc, and thanking me for my order. Panasonic also requested authorisation from my credit card co. to take funds...

2 days later I got an email saying my order had been cancelled, with no explanation. By that stage, whilst they had requested and been given authorisation to charge my account, they had decided not to complete this transaction, so didn't actually take any funds.

Their terms and conditions make no reference to when a contract is made, therefore I think its reasonable to assume its at the point when they accepted my offer to buy at that price and sent me an email confirm all the details. Their T&Cs also made no reference to being able to cancel orders if the price is wrong, although they have since added such a clause...

Their T&Cs only stated they could cancel orders if the item is out of stock, although their website doesn't allow you to put an item in your cart if not in stock...

I have had several communications with Panasonic and they have basically said it was a pricing error, we can cancel it regardless of everything, and I can re-order at full price if I like.

I am considering making a county court claim against them for the replacement cost (ie full price). I think they need to honour this transaction. Ok so they are saying it was a pricing error, but they still accepted my order, and did not build sufficient protection for themselves into their T&Cs. Their only defence is that it was a price error, so they don't have to honour the order.

Does anyone have any advice?

Thanks.

vansboy

Don't waste your time/£$£$ in court or anywhere else.

This happened with Argos, Kodak & others.

It was a MISTAKE, not anything else, so that's it really!

VB

pierre5

yeah and KODAK had to pay out.

It may be a mistake, but surely that doesn't mean you can just wriggle out of it?

Eg you sign a contract and you change your mind, it's tough, you signed on the dotted line?

I don't see the difference. If their T&Cs protected them, fine, but if not, they should have got it right.

vivatifosi

Check their T&Cs. If the order is binding, then they have to go through with it. We have had this situation twice, once with a car and once with a laptop, although we weren't lucky enough to get either for 1p.

The laptop was worth over £1k (got it for just over £250) and the car was not sold as described so they had to get us another in better order at their cost (worth an additional £1-2k). The opt out in both these cases was that they tried to give us our money back, but we didn't take it. We were supported in both cases by Which? Legal, which offers low cost legal advice. Both companies backed down and gave us what we ordered.

ormus

dont waste your time. you got your money back, whats the problem?
panasonic has now got the bad publicity they deserve.

Nile

Hello pierre5

I'll move your thread to 'The (Consumer) Vent' board.

Hi, Martin’s asked me to post this in these circumstances: I’ve asked Board Guides to move threads if they’ll receive a better response elsewhere(please see this rule) so this post/thread has been moved to another board, where it should get more replies. If you have any questions about this policy please email [EMAIL="abuse@moneysavingexpert.com"]abuse@moneysavingexpert.com[/EMAIL].

Regards

Nile

dmg24

I didn't think this was too good to be true

Yeah, yeah ...

From their website:

Whilst we try to ensure that all prices on our website are accurate, errors may occur. If we discover an error in the price of goods you have ordered, we reserve the right to cancel the order and invite you to place another order for the goods at the correct price. If we cannot contact you we will treat your order as cancelled. If you cancel the order and you have already paid for the goods, we will give you a full refund.

Panasonic have clearly covered themselves for this situation. You have absolutely no chance of winning legal action against them.

stugib

pierre5 wrote: »

I didn't think this was too good to be true

Oh c'mon, really? Honestly? Weren't just trying your luck? Flights for 1p aren't a fair comparison - they're going to put the flight on anyway and usually make the money on enforced extras and it's a completely different business model.

pierre5 wrote: »

The website took my credit card details...requested authorisation from my credit card co. to take funds... 2 days later...they had decided not to complete this transaction, so didn't actually take any funds.

pierre5 wrote: »

Their terms and conditions make no reference to when a contract is made, therefore I think its reasonable to assume its at the point when they accepted my offer to buy at that price and sent me an email confirm all the details.

No, an unreasonable assumption because it has no legal basis. Contract only formed when they take the funds.

pierre5 wrote: »

Their T&Cs also made no reference to being able to cancel orders if the price is wrong, although they have since added such a clause...

So you didn't think it was too good to be true but specifically looked into the T&Cs at the time to check there was nothing against pricing errors?

pierre5 wrote: »

I am considering making a county court claim against them for the replacement cost (ie full price). I think they need to honour this transaction. Does anyone have any advice?

To listen to the other's advice and don't waste your time. Don't have references to hand but I'm 99% sure there's now case law saying that if anything's obviously an error (as a TV for 1p would reasonably be) then you can't hold a company to it, even if they had taken funds.

goshdarnit

ormus wrote: »

dont waste your time. you got your money back, whats the problem?

No, let him lose his money in a pointless court action if he wants. People who post this sort of thread don't tend to listen to any replies that disagree with there (incorrect) opinion anyways. (you can even point them to the relevant law, and case examples, but they still argue, so let them argue with a judge)

So, yes, take them to court, but remember to come back here in six months and let everyone know how much it cost you, and what you lost on.

pierre5

@ DMG24: as I said in my first post, that clause you copied was added AFTER I placed my order. They took their site down for 3 days and added that clause about a week after. It was not part of the T&Cs at the time I placed my order. The fact that they subsequently added such a clause suggests they know they were unprotected for pricing errros previously.

@stugib:

Thought maybe was a price error, but you never know. Had I been totally convinced it was a price error, I would have bought far more than just 2 tvs, but I thought maybe it was some sort of promotion that would run until limited stock ran out. Not a totally unreasonable view.

Contract is not only formed when they take the funds. I suggest you recheck, its not black and white like that - its a grey area, especially since (as confirmed by my credit card company) they requested authorisation to take the funds, which clearly shows acceptance of order with intent etc.

No, I looked into their T&Cs after they had responded to me advising there was a pricing error. It was then that I realised they had added a clause. I know because I always print out T&Cs when I buy on-line.

Thanks for your advice though, at least constructive, unlike goshdarnit who seems to have had a bad day.

goshdarnit

I thought my advice was very well contructed. IMO you will lose. If you wish to pursue this go to court, but no judge on earth will find 1p "reasonable" in this case. You will of course, have to convince a judge you though 1p was reasonable, but saying things like

pierre5 wrote: »

Thought maybe was a price error

won't help you one little bit.

As you yourself also said,

pierre5 wrote: »

they .... didn't actually take any funds.

General concensus now is that when the goods are in the post, you can consider them yours. This is backed up by the T&Cs, which you don't even have. Even taking the money, all the trader has to do is "set things to rights" anyway.

IMO you'll fall at the first hurdle of "reasonable", so its pointless even going to court to try and find out when, or if, a contract was even formed by would could be considered an automated acceptance, or if it was formed when they took the money (which they didn't even do), or when they sent it etc etc

By the way, how much was the RRP on this. £200 £300 £400 or what?