Employer not paying agreed redundancy notice pay.

sunluvva

Apologies up front for long winded post but it's a bit complicated so I'll do it with bullet points as the order of events is important.

* Husband's company followed proper procedure to inform him of potential redundancy then confirmed it last Tuesday 23rd.

* He'd made job enquiries and went for an interview last Wednesday 24th.

* He received letter dated 24th August from company confirming that he was entitled to 12 weeks redundancy pay and that he had to work 5 weeks of an 8 week notice period. His employment would terminate on 30th of September and he would receive 3 weeks payment in lieu of notice for the remaining 3 weeks. Both redundancy and notice were enhanced pay.

* He got confirmation of his new job offer on Friday 26th. He went to work as normal but told his boss that he had a new job to start at in October after working his notice.

* The finance manager told him that as he was going to be working for a rival company he had to hand in his phone and keys etc and that he should leave now and not work his notice period as it was a conflict of interest.

* An email was sent to the whole company within minutes of the meeting ending stating that he was no longer working for them with immediate effect. My husband saw this email before he left and we have a copy of it.

* He called the new employers to say he no longer worked for the company and could start earlier than October and agreed a start date of 12th September.

* He was called later that day by the finance manager who'd told him to leave and told that the managing director ( who is also a friend) wanted to see him today (31st) to discuss final details.

* At the meeting today he was told that as he had accepted a job with a rival company it was agreed that his employment would terminate immediately. He was given a letter and it states Wednesday 31st August as the termination date.

*They have also reduced his notice period and are only paying him till the end of September which equates to 5 weeks even though he is entitled to 8 weeks. All pay is still at the enhanced rate.

The company he has been made redundant from is saying that as he has another job with a competitor that they don't have to pay all his notice pay.

I know that if he had chosen to leave he wouldn't be entitled to it but he waited till he had the letter confirming his redundancy and was prepared to work the notice period before starting with the new company. He only agreed to start earlier because the original company told him his employment was terminated with immediate effect on Friday 26th.

Are the company able to do this, if he was entitled to 8 weeks notice on 23rd August why isn't he entitle to the same amount on 31st.

All advice greatfully recieved.

Blackbeard_of_Perranporth

Don't burn bridges.

sunluvva

Thanks, my husband has been with this company both employed and self employed for many years and helped it grow from a small family company to a large international one. He is considered a friend by the owners. Initially he felt very angry then betrayed. He didn't want to 'upset the apple cart and was willing to just walk away.

However - if he is legally entitled to this money which they were going to pay him then it should be paid. At yesterday's meeting they pretty much said 'we are stopping this money because you have gone to work for a rival and we don't want you too. With all respect they can't make someone redundant then tell them who they can or can't work for.

k3lvc

sunluvva wrote: »

Thanks, my husband has been with this company both employed and self employed for many years and helped it grow from a small family company to a large international one. He is considered a friend by the owners. Initially he felt very angry then betrayed. He didn't want to 'upset the apple cart and was willing to just walk away.

However - if he is legally entitled to this money which they were going to pay him then it should be paid. At yesterday's meeting they pretty much said 'we are stopping this money because you have gone to work for a rival and we don't want you too. With all respect they can't make someone redundant then tell them who they can or can't work for.

There are times when emotion gets in the way of common sense and this appears to be one of them


I would assume there is a non-competitive clause in the contract and this is unlikely to be over-ruled by a redundancy situation (at least before the formal leaving date)


TBH I'm surprised they've still agreed to pay to end Sept if Husband has already started with competitor so I'd be banking the money asap

sunluvva

I understand this but does this still apply if his employment is terminated before he begins work for the new company. He had every intention of working his full notice period, it was the company who told him to go immediately and said his employment was terminated then. If they do this surely they still have to pay the redundancy. He works in a specialist area - any new job he got would be with a rival company and they know this.

sangie595

sunluvva wrote: »

Thanks, my husband has been with this company both employed and self employed for many years and helped it grow from a small family company to a large international one. He is considered a friend by the owners. Initially he felt very angry then betrayed. He didn't want to 'upset the apple cart and was willing to just walk away.

However - if he is legally entitled to this money which they were going to pay him then it should be paid. At yesterday's meeting they pretty much said 'we are stopping this money because you have gone to work for a rival and we don't want you too. With all respect they can't make someone redundant then tell them who they can or can't work for.

If there is an enforceable restrictive covenant, then actually, with respect, they can tell him who he can and cannot work for! Redundancy would be irrelevant in this matter. Not that this is clear since you haven't confirmed whether there is one.

There isn't enough information here to suggest whether he is entitled to the money or not, but I suspect that he may be. However, entitlement is one thing, and getting it another. If the former employer is refusing to pay, then it will require court action, or the threat of it, to get the money. And since I am going to assume that the employer will resist, one way or another, then if this has to go to court it will probably mean an expensive employment tribunal case if the employment issues are complex, or a likely counter suit if there is a restrictive covenant. All of which may be fine and you may get the money.

But perhaps more importantly, he works in a specialist area. So I assume that equally, this is rather niche and everyone knows everyone else? In which case, do you think his new employers will be happy to hear about him threatening or taking legal action against am employer. In these matters, it often doesn't matter what is right. What matters is whether they are going to wonder about whether he'll do the same to them, and whether he is " trigger happy". In which case, you might find that they cut their losses sometime in the first two years to make sure that they don't end up in the same place. Sometimes employees really have utterly no option but to go to the law, but sometimes it is a judgement call "all things considered" and this is the latter.

And I'm not sure why you are posting rather than him, but if he wants to walk away, and you are set on him getting his rights, then don't go there. It's his job and his decision, come what may. There are real risks here, and you do not want to be there if he decides to take them and it goes pear shaped. Don't push him into something, just support his own decision. Whatever that is. There is more to the world than being right.

sunluvva

Hi Sangie595
Thanks for your reply. We don't need to worry about his new employer's concerns re taking action as they are actively encouraging it. They know the the company well and are sure that they are acting illegally.

The key point for me is that he was made redundant and his employment terminated before he agreed to start work on 12th Sept. If he hadn't told them he'd been offered this job he would have continued working for them til 30th, been paid 8 weeks notice money then started working for the new company the week after.

If we have a letter stating he is entitled to 8 weeks notice are they able to reduce it to 5 weeks - isn't that a statutory thing?

sangie595

sunluvva wrote: »

Hi Sangie595
Thanks for your reply. We don't need to worry about his new employer's concerns re taking action as they are actively encouraging it. They know the the company well and are sure that they are acting illegally.

The key point for me is that he was made redundant and his employment terminated before he agreed to start work on 12th Sept. If he hadn't told them he'd been offered this job he would have continued working for them til 30th, been paid 8 weeks notice money then started working for the new company the week after.

If we have a letter stating he is entitled to 8 weeks notice are they able to reduce it to 5 weeks - isn't that a statutory thing?

I can't answer that - it may be statutory notice, or contractual notice. You haven't said! If it's contractual, it depends on the contractual terms, including those in the redundancy agreement. It isn't a straightforward answer because there are things it depends on, and one of those things is whether he had technically given counter notice, in which case the employer is correct in reducing the notice pay. I'm afraid that you may need a solicitor to untangle this. So the chances are that you could spend more on getting the money than you get back! You could try a letter before action threatening legal action if they refuse to pay the remainder, but they may simply ignore it and force you to make good on the threat.

sunluvva

I will have to get a copy of his contract to see exactly how it is worded. Thanks for your advice

getmore4less

How long has he worked there?

Problem is he may have inadvertently agreed to an early termination.

getmore4less

The second issue is companies can withdraw redundancy right upto the last day, the correct solution when finding another job is counter notice but that has rules based on notice.