need I file a tax return?

greatcrested

I am Executer of a will (Probate granted last year).

Looking online, I see that SA900 (Trust and Estate Tax return 2016) starts by saying:

This notice requires you by law to send us a tax
return giving details of income and disposals of
chargeable assets, and any documents we ask for,
for the year 6 April 2015 to 5 April 2016.

However I have not been sent a SA900, or any other request for a tax return.

No tax will be payable. Most assets are still tied up in a property that is currently being sold.

The guide (SA950) says:

The Trust and Estate Tax Return asks for
details of income and capital gains. With it
we have sent 2 guides; (they haven't) this one to help you fill in
the Trust and Estate Tax Return, and another to
help you calculate the trust’s or estate's tax bill
(if you want to).
All trustees and personal representatives get the
first 12 pages (I didn't) of the tax return.

So do I need to submit a Return?

Wayne_O_Mac

greatcrested wrote: »

So do I need to submit a Return?

Yes, because:

This notice requires you by law to send us a tax
return

booksurr

read this, particularly the section on the administration period which is what you are in

https://www.gov.uk/self-assessment-tax-returns/returns-for-someone-who-has-died

UK tax is based on the principle is self assessment - hence it is an SA form. That means you initiate contact with HMRC, you don't wait to be sent things when they don't have the staff or time to check up on everyone who has died and whose executors may need chasing as a consequence

FOREVER21

OP why did you think you may need to complete
a SA900? Did the deceased usually submit a SA form.

I have carried out the role as executor of a will ,after getting probate, but I never received or considered SA900, but the deceased, was on PAYE, also like you after completing the probate application it was clear that no tax was due

I would have thought the form completed when applying for probate which is sent to HMRC by the probate office, would have resulted in them sending you a form if one was required.


If you are unsure whether SA900 is needed just ask HMRC.

greatcrested

Wayne_O_Mac wrote: »

Yes, because:

This notice requires you by law to send us a tax
return

That implies they need to send me a Notice. They have not - I downloaded it off their website (NOT because they told me to).

UK tax is based on the principle is self assessment - hence it is an SA form. That means you initiate contact with HMRC,

Indeed. But you only need to voluntarily submit a SA Retun if required to do so. For example, my personal circumstances are such that my income is taxed at source (PAYE) so I do not need to submit a SA Return unless HMRC send me one.

Hence my uncertainty.

Did the deceased usually submit a SA form. No. Her pension was taxed via PAYE, an her savings/investments taxed at source.

I have carried out the role as executor of a will , after getting probate, but I never received or considered SA900, but the deceased, was on PAYE, also like you after completing the probate application it was clear that no tax was due

I would have thought the form completed when applying for probate which is sent to HMRC by the probate office, would have resulted in them sending you a form if one was required.

Indeed.

I submitted form IHT400 to HMRC in order to get Probate, so as you say, HMRC are well aware of the circumstances.

Guess I'll have to ring them, but I know from experience that means an hour listening to their music, followed by a brief conversation with a call centre guy who was recently 'trained' and whose infomation (if indeed any given) is unreliable.....

As for trying to get a written response, they don't provide email addresses, and letters can sit in an in-tray for months....

FOREVER21

https://www.gov.uk/self-assessment-tax-returns/returns-for-someone-who-has-died


Para 8 seems to clarify the position, ie " HMRC will advise if SA is required.

TheCyclingProgrammer

As a general point, in order to be liable to submit a tax return, HMRC do have you send you a notice to file a tax return. They will do this if you've registered for SA voluntarily or if something comes to their attention and they want you to do one. No notice, no liability to file a return.

However, you do have a separate responsibility to notify HMRC of anything that could require you to submit a tax return; as booksurr says, it's down to you to notify them of anything.

If you have received a notice to file you need to do one, if you haven't but aren't sure if you need to do one then it's best to contact HMRC and ask them.

greatcrested

FOREVER21 wrote: »

https://www.gov.uk/self-assessment-tax-returns/returns-for-someone-who-has-died


Para 8 seems to clarify the position, ie " HMRC will advise if SA is required.

That seems to apply to the deceased's tax affairs - up to death.

However further down it says:

When you must send a tax return for the ‘administration period’

Fill in the trust and estate section of the Self Assessment tax return if any of the following apply:

• the total Income Tax and Capital Gains Tax due for the administration period was more than £10,000
• in any one tax year, more than £250,000 came from the sale of the estate’s assets by administrators or executors
• the estate was worth more than £2.5 million at the date of death

Thanks for the link!

polymaff

However, any taxable income the estate receives during administration will be taxable - and, remember that the estate has no allowances.

[Although, there is an ESC, for 2016/17, whereby there is no need to file if that income is all savings interest and the tax liability is below £100]

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/hm-revenue-and-customs-trusts-and-estates-newsletters/hmrc-trusts-and-estates-newsletter-april-2016

booksurr

greatcrested wrote: »

Indeed. But you only need to voluntarily submit a SA Retun if required to do so. For example, my personal circumstances are such that my income is taxed at source (PAYE) so I do not need to submit a SA Return unless HMRC send me one.

indeed, however you have a legal duty to inform HMRC if "you" have untaxed income whether they have asked you to do a return or not. Just because your salary is on PAYE does not mean you do not potentially have other sources of untaxed income that you may need to declare, savings interest being an obvious example

i gave you the link at #3 and someone repeated it at #5

as executor in the admin period you have a duty to ensure that any tax due by the estate (not the deceased) is paid. It appears you have delat with the deceased' liability up to date of death but that still leaves the possibility of a separate tax return for the estate itself after death. The link explains when you must do a tax return is required, but that does not mean you can fail to declare untaxed income if the values and amounts are below the thresholds mentioned in the link where it is compulsory to do a tax return

as i said, read the link, paying attention to the last bit .... If you don’t need to send a tax return you can make ‘informal arrangements’ instead. To do this, write to HMRC and tell them.....