NO sick pay, NO ESA, Help??

Tink0201

Hi all,

I’m posting on behalf of my sister, brief story below:

On Monday 27th June she visited Lincoln County Hospital, had tests and got sent home with suspected gastroenteritis.

She informed her employer the following day that she was unlikely to be fit for her shift on Thursday 30th June and was unable to work that day.

She had previously been told she wasn’t entitled to Sick Pay, for this reason she struggled through her next shift on Sunday 3rd July.

On Monday 4th July she returned to her GP as she was still not feeling well, at this point it was confirmed that she didn’t have gastroenteritis but a rumbling appendix.

On Tuesday 5th July, she was rushed to hospital, where she remained until Friday 15th July.

During her stay in hospital, she had a Laparoscopy, Appendicitis (removal) and complications with an infection.

On 20th July she was informed that she is not entitled to Statutory Sick Pay and will not receive any pay from her employer until she returns to work. She took Thursday 30th June off work, this making her average earnings for the previous 8 weeks fall below the threshold (by £4). The Thursday off sick was for the same condition that resulted in her being in hospital but this was unknown to her at the time, or she’d have continued to rest instead of working on the Sunday.

On Thursday 14th July, she received a payment from her employer of £57.50. This was the last payment she will receive until she returns to work.

My sister has contacted the Job Centre about Employment Support Allowance. As she is in receipt of Working Tax Credit, she is £3.20 over the threshold for being able to claim ESA.

It is now 6 weeks since she received any wages and has been told she is unable to claim anything, has anyone been in this situation? Surely a single parent cannot be expected to cope with suddenly loosing this level of income? (£115+ shortfall per week)

My sister is still not fit for work; it will be sometime yet as it is looking likely she will be returning for more surgery. As a family we can help in the short term but with no idea of when she will be able to return to work, the thought of additional debt and panic over money is really not helping her and causing unnecessary stress.

Sorry for the long post. If anyone can offer any thoughts or advice, we’d be really appreciative.

Thanks

MrsMJ

Having had a really tough time with my employer and disability related sickness, I totally sympathise with your sister and understand how tough this will be!!

I am sure it is the amount she is contracted to - not the actual amount earned - that is used to calculate sick pay?? Of course, she will not receive wages when off sick if this is what her contract states. Does she have a contract of certain hours? or is it a zero hour contract?

Have you contacted citizens advice?

TELLIT01

Basic rate of ESA during the assessment phase is £73.20. Working Tax Credit payments are taken fully into account against this assuming the claim is for Income Related support. From the OP I assume the sister is currently receiving approximately £76 per week in WTC. That being the case, she is unfortunately not entitled to ESA.
As she is on a low income anyway, presumably she is already claiming HB and Council Tax reduction.

TELLIT01

MrsMJ wrote: »

I am sure it is the amount she is contracted to - not the actual amount earned - that is used to calculate sick pay??

Entitlement to SSP is based on average gross earnings over the previous 8 weeks. As the qualifying figure is so close to the amount earned, I would suggest your sister do the calculation herself on the GOV.UK website. There is a calculator on there designed for employers but there is nothing to stop here using it. The cutoff figure is an absolute. There is no leeway because somebody is close to having an entitlement.

pmlindyloo

I hope one of our tax credits experts will be along to confirm this.

One of the criteria for claiming the run on for working tax credits for when you are off sick is to be in recent of a qualifying benefit.

Read this:

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/tax-credits-technical-manual/tctm02421

If your sister has not put in a claim for ESA then her working tax credits may stop.

However, she could continue to receive the working tax credits if she has a NI credits only claim. Since her income is too high to receive income based ESA then I believe that she could still put in a claim for ESA and be awarded a NI credits claim only. Then her working tax credits will continue.

As already said, it seems her WTC is more than ESA which is why she would not receive any ESA money. But she can still apply for HB and CT based on a low income.

Tolly_T

Hi, what have they said about the period 27/06 - 02/07? That's a period of sickness lasting more than 4 days. For SSP your sister had to be ill for 4 days in a row but that can include non working days.

If her earnings before 27/06 averaged above £112/week then I believe this would have been her first period of sickness for SSP purposes which included one working day which wouldn't have been paid.

The period of sickness starting on 04/07 would have been a second period of sickness for SSP purposes which would be linked to the first because it was within 8 weeks, the first two working days of this period wouldn't have been paid.

She only needed to qualify for SSP for the first period of sickness, the fact that she was off on 30th June and this put her earnings below £112 /week isn't relevant as that is after the first period of sickness.

Take a look at

statutory-sick-pay

I think your sister needs to check that her employer has recorded her sickness on 30/06 as lasting more than four days. Her employer was aware from the Tuesday of that week that she was ill, she's got evidence that she was ill the day before as she went to the hospital. She returned to work on the Sunday but I imagine she was still ill on the Saturday. If they've recorded just the one working day as sickness they should correct this and look again at her entitlement to SSP.

She could also call the HMRC employees’ enquiry line Telephone: 0300 200 3500. The HMRC website says

If you’re unhappy with a decision
Talk to your employer if you think:
their decision not to pay you SSP is wrong
you’re not getting the right amount of SSP
You can ask them for a reason. If this doesn’t sort the problem, contact the HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) employees’ enquiry line.

I've called the employers' enquiry line for help with SSP calculations years ago when I did payroll for a charity and they were very helpful. I imagine they will be equally helpful providing employees with advice about SSP.

Tink0201

Thank you all for the replies.

She has worked in the same place for 10+ years, she is contracted to 16 hours per week on minimum wage.

We did call Citizens Advice, they just told us to ring the Job Centre.

She receives Working Tax Credit and has been told this will continue, it won't increase but they won't take it off her at the moment.

She is currently receives Housing Benefit that equates to be about half her rent. She pays full Council Tax (single occupancy discount). She has contacted both of these but has no figures confirmed whether there will be additional support while she's off work.

It just seems so frustrating to me. If she hadn't made the effort and struggled to go to work for the one day, her average earnings would enabled her to receive SSP. She is not entitled to one form of ESA because she has not paid enough National Insurance - because of her low income. Now she is not entitled to the other form of ESA because she receives Working Tax, which takes her over the threshold (Working Tax that is only paid because it is considered she doesn't earn enough on her income alone?). But, now she unexpectedly doesn't have that income.

I know how tight money is for them normally, they don't live an extravagant lifestyle, they struggle to get by. To lose £115 a week and not know when she will be able to return to work is very scary for her. I wasn't sure if we'd missed something but it seems that's how it is. We'll make it work somehow.

MrsMJ, Sorry to hear you've had issues with your employer. Hope you got it resolved and are in better health now.

Tink0201

Tolly_T wrote: »

Hi, what have they said about the period 27/06 - 02/07? That's a period of sickness lasting more than 4 days. For SSP your sister had to be ill for 4 days in a row but that can include non working days.

If her earnings before 27/06 averaged above £112/week then I believe this would have been her first period of sickness for SSP purposes which included one working day which wouldn't have been paid.

The period of sickness starting on 04/07 would have been a second period of sickness for SSP purposes which would be linked to the first because it was within 8 weeks, the first two working days of this period wouldn't have been paid.

She only needed to qualify for SSP for the first period of sickness, the fact that she was off on 30th June and this put her earnings below £112 /week isn't relevant as that is after the first period of sickness.

Thank you so much for this. This was my thinking but after hearing from her employer it's causing me to doubt the things I've read. As it stands currently, the first missed shift has just been an unpaid day off.
I will look into this for her, thanks again

Tolly_T

I think it's correct that the first missed shift is an unpaid day but it should be recorded as sick leave in order for the following period to be calculated correctly. I hope you can sort this for her.

Confuseddot

Assuming she gets maximum child tax credits too ?