Is it worth trying to appeal

monsterhax

Evening all,

Thought I'd try for some feedback before either paying up or contesting the Charge Notice I just received.

Date of incident was 6/8/2016
PCN issued on 17/8/2016 and I received 19/8/2016

Company is CP Plus who issued the charge for my vehicle entering and at 12:54 and leaving at 15:15, they use plate recognition of vehicles entering and leaving and you need to enter in at least 3 digits of your number plate at the pay machine.

So the situation is I've used this place several times in the past, Montague Centre, Liverpool Gardens in worthing. And know the payment process is painful, the machines are slow and always have a queue of patrons waiting for the soul in front to be successful.

I've previously paid via the website, which relies on you knowing when you arrived and how many hours you want to pay for, I didnt check the time on this occasion so opted for the machine.

Previously I've had the machine voiding the card transaction at the end of the process which means you need to repeat the process. For this reason I try to be vigilant when paying.

I recall this day quite clearly as when I finally got my turn to pay I took the time to complete as had decided once done to help the couple next to me who where struggling with their transaction, which i did. Though was also mindful I had the double buggy with me and isn't particularly safe as the machine is based inside the exit route.

However for myself i'm sure the machine reported it successful, though now am doubting myself. I don't have a receipt for the payment and nor does my bank show a transaction either, so it's as if i didn't pay. Though I know I stood at the machine and went through the motions of doing so.

Is it worth appealing or just pay the initial £50 and be done with it, but left with that sick feeling you've been done. Do these companies maintain Transaction history in the machines for failed payment attempts? Would CCTV prove anything?

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

Redx

no , CCTV cannot be used for this task

the normal procedures are that you pay and get a receipt (your ticket) and this should be kept as proof of purchase

your problem seems to be that they are alleging that you did not pay , you say you did pay but have no proof of payment

catch 22

if you do appeal, it would be tend to be on legal arguments and not the facts you describe , harsh , but true

its a difficult scenario I grant you that

its also hard to advise you as it must be your decision and even a solicitor cannot advise you

you might appeal , win , and pay nothing

or you might lose and pay more

if you IGNORE, it may go to court where you might lose up to about £225 or so or if you won you can claim up to £90

I am afraid nobody can give you a definite answer

you could pay £10 and put an SAR in to see if your payments are on the system, like you asked about, but it may not help and the appeal window would time out

monsterhax

Thanks Redx,

I appreciate the reply, I guess the amount of time and effort i'd have to invest with the high potential of a negative outcome sways it in their favour. Costly lesson but also a learning exercise, don't use this place in the future.

Cheers.

Fruitcake

My advice would be to appeal using the BPA template in blue from the Sticky thread for NEWBIES. I expect there was something wrong with the PCN/NTK that makes in non POFA 2012 compliant that you can use to appeal at the PoPLA stage. The parking companies hardly ever get them right.

I would never advise anyone to pay a scammer, but then I have nothing to lose.

You should read the NEWBIES thread anyway whatever you decide to do.

Umkomaas

Be bullish about this and fight. No need to be paying an outfit who are highly unlikely (on past performance) to pursue this beyond absolutely toothless debt collector letters (don't confuse debt collectors with bailiffs or boys turning up on your doorstep).

Pushing 200,000 tickets issued in the past 18 months and only one court case (which might not have been parking related). I've just been working on a spreadsheet with hundreds of formulae to get to the conclusion for you that there is a 1 in 200,000 chance of this getting to court stage. Double-check my maths manually if you think my spreadsheet formulae might have had errors in them.

http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/CP_Plus.html

The_Deep

Why pay them when fighting them is such fun. Think of it as a game, they are trying to scam you, and you are trying to cost them money for their hubris.

monsterhax

Hi,

I'm swaying whether or not to appeal.

i took a look at the template mentioned, below and isn't directly applicable to me "large lettering". In the PCN they refer to "Parking Eye v Beavis" that the court ruling on PCN on Private Land is enforceable.

I did check with my bank to see if they had any trace of the non existent transaction and they can't see any approved nor denied transactions.

i did take a look at the appealpcn.co.uk web site, the first they expect you to do is confirm whether you are or aren't the driver of the vehicle, and read somewhere just to refer yourself as the keeper.

How would you go about finding who the Land owner is?

Date


Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No. ....................

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car and I will complain to the landowner about the matter if it is not cancelled.

I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers before they park.

Further, I understand you do not own the car park and you have given me no information about your policy with the landowner or on site businesses, to cancel such a charge. So please supply that policy as required under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013. I believe the driver may well be eligible for cancellation and you have omitted clear information about the process for complaints including a geographical address of the landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully,