Indigo Railway parking nightmare

Vixter33

Hi all, hope someone can help
The driver of a car was delighted to receive a Penalty Notice from Indigo Parking yesterday at Wolverton station. whoop whoop!
Teh driver has been parking at Wolverton Station for weeks and has been paying via the RingGo app as using the GPS and their website it says 'Wolverton Station' so clearly they were gutted to discover that the car park is actually managed by Indigo!. However, before they started using the station car park they had checked the station website for parking and was directed through indigo onto the London Midland website for parking. On there the map to the Wolverton Station car park directs them to a carpark quite a distance from the station, so they decided not to go with that one as it wasn't very close and they preferred to park at the actual station, hence the RingGo app.
they want to appeal as they're not happy about paying out £60 or £100 when they've been paying for parking for weeks and both companies website are ambiguous to say the least about who covers what!
Further confusion is the car is a company car, so if they go down the 'notice to keeper' route they're not the keeper, the lease company is. But they have spoken to them to say they will be appealing and if they do receive a notice to keeper they are not to respond but to inform the driver, which they are happy to do so.
So my question is, what do they do next? do they appeal using their website ambiguity, or the notice to keeper.
All help will be very much appreciated

Vixter33

Also when do they appeal, the ticket states pay in 14 days for £60 28 days for £100, however the Notice to Keeper can't be sent out by them before 28 days?? If they want to appeal their process must be started within 28 days? what happens after that?
Cheers

Umkomaas

I'm not the keeper, the lease company is.

Wrong! You are the keeper, the lease company is the registered keeper, and you now need to work on that basis throughout this as the Protection of Freedoms Act (under which you will contest the charge) refers to the (day-to-day) keeper not the RK.

But I have spoken to them to say i will be appealing and if they do receive a notice to keeper they are not to respond but to inform me, which they are happy to do so.

It would be far better for them to respond to the PPC and provide them with your details as 'the hirer' of the vehicle. This will exonerate them and give you some further protection under PoFA as the paperwork the PPC has to generate is more copious that that which they have to just chasing a keeper. None have yet got that bit right, as far as I remember.

Redx

first thing to mention is for you to alter post #1 and change anything that identifies the driver , so change to words like "the driver has been parking"

the windscreen notice and arrangements are for the driver (entrapment) so assume that I was driving, you are the keeper

to comply with POFA2012 you should tell the lease company to notify the keepers details as hirer/lessee (not as driver, nobody knows who the driver was , keep it that way)

the newbies sticky thread tells you all the answers to the questions you have asked (appealing on day 25 as keeper etc) - so this could be done but better if the hire co tell them the keeper/hirer details

then you appeal as keeper to the NTK indigo send to you

railway land is subject to byelaws and not relevant land for POFA2012 , so it is IMPERATIVE that they are not given the drivers details , due to POFA2012 requirements protecting YOU as KEEPER

SO EASILY WON IF YOU STICK BY THE CORRECT ADVICE AND LEARN WHAT THE DIFFERENCES ARE BETWEEN THE FOLLOWING

owner - registered keeper - keeper - driver

relevant land - non-relevant land (POFA2012)

parking rules - byelaws

only magistrates can deal with PENALTY notices, which I doubt that the driver received, more likely to be a PARKING charge notice whereas the TOC should be issuing Penalty notices (not INDIGO)

put INDIGO into the forum search box to see how others have handled their cases, especially the ones who did not reveal the drivers details

first job though , is to edit your posts into 3rd party speak

Vixter33

Thanks for all the help guys, advice for this driver is much appreciated. i have been searching the forum as well but was finding some of the information confusing, purely due to my lack of knowledge. So working get my head round it all

So in a nutshell, they should request the lease company to confirm their details as the hirer NOT the driver

They should appeal on day 25 via the Indigo online appeal process, should they use the template provided on MSE?

What does the driver appeal as or how if no NTK is received by the lease company, which i'm guessing it won't as I believe Indigo can't send out the NTK before 28 days, Is the basis of the appeal that the driver is unknown? (sorry just getting a bit confused by this bit)

Indigo have called the ticket a 'Penalty Notice' which is suspect is purely to scare the driver into believing its more official that it actually is.

I shall keep searching the forum and put together the drivers plan of attack following the correct advice

Thanks again

Redx

if the driver is in any doubt they should file the windscreen ticket for now and ask the HIRE CO to wait for the NTK (between day 29 and day 56 to comply with POFA2012) and then for them to inform INDIGO of the details of the hirer (lessee) so they have fulfilled POFA2012 and also done what the BVRLA tells them to do in the jan 2015 newsletter

INDIGO should then send an NTK to the keeper , ie- the hirer , who then appeals it using the appeal in blue text from the NEWBIES sticky thread (NOT THE MSE ONE)

ignore the MSE advice, only read the NEWBIES sticky thread for advice here

assuming that INDIGO are following the parking charge route (not the PENALTY charge route under the bylaws) , the KEEPER will then appeal it as mentioned above, get a popla code and draft a popla appeal based on previous INDIGO 2016 railway land appeals (similar appeals to the airport ones like Luton and Birmingham) , and win under one of the many legal arguments but especially POFA2012 and NTK reasons , especially as railway land is not covered by POFA2012 so only the driver can be held responsible, hence why it is never revealed

if its a penalty notice, the TOC has 6 months to take it to a magistrates court, so string it along as much as possible

therefore, wait for the HIRE CO to get the NTK, for them to name the hirer , for the keeper/lessee to receive an NTK in their own name (within 21 days) , then appeal it as KEEPER , keeping timeframes as long as possible BUT NOT MISSING THE 28 DAY APPEAL DEADLINE

if any any doubt , keep reading the NEWBIES thread and other Indigo threads from this year only, UNTIL you understand the reasons for everything being said

ie:- railway land has byelaws, so as you received a PENALTY notice, they should pursue under byelaws at magistrates court within 6 months, but they get it mixed up and try popla , and fail , as long as the driver isnt named

they rarely know the difference between parking and penalty

have a read through this previous one that was won at popla

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5457390

and this one

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5482542

and

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5503721

and

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5478728

and

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5508525

there are dozens of them , so you are not alone

paulstevens64

Hi Vixter


The plan is: Tell the Lease company to reveal the details of the "hirer" of the car (that is the person leasing it from them), to the parking company.

The parking company will then send a NTK (notice to Keeper (in this case the hirer)).

The hirer will then appeal just before the deadline (check the NTK and appeal just before the deadline). That appeal should be a template one from the sticky thread.

The purpose of this is to never admit/reveal who was driving.
Once the parking company have tried to bully you into saying who the driver was (letters which you ignore). They will send you a rejection letter with a Popla code .

Now you write your Popla appeal, majoring on the fact that the NTK was non compliant for POFA (there are a set of complicated rules for POFA for hire cars, and the parking companies always fail to follow the rules).

Therefore there can be no "keeper" liability (in this case the hirer). As the parking company do not know who the actual driver was (because you have not told them), they do not have anyone to chase for payment.

I hope this helps.

Vixter33

Brilliant, thank you all for your patience with my queries and for all the help. The driver will ensure the lease company replies to any NTK with details of the 'Hirer' and will wait 25 days before doing anything.

One quick question, and this depends on how slick Indigo are, the driver has parked in indigo carparks before and paid via the LondonMidland website, they will have to park at Wolverton again and will pay through the Londonmidland website again, this does mean entering registration number, name and address. Might Indigo then put 2 and 2 together and suss the details, or is that giving them too much credit? or can they even access those details on the LondonMidland website?

Thanks again

Umkomaas

Vixter33 wrote: »

Brilliant, thank you all for your patience with my queries and for all the help. The driver will ensure the lease company replies to any NTK with details of the 'Hirer' and will wait 25 days before doing anything.

One quick question, and this depends on how slick Indigo are, the driver has parked in indigo carparks before and paid via the LondonMidland website, they will have to park at Wolverton again and will pay through the Londonmidland website again, this does mean entering registration number, name and address. Might Indigo then put 2 and 2 together and suss the details, or is that giving them too much credit? or can they even access those details on the LondonMidland website?

Thanks again

You're overthinking this. They deal with these tickets on an industrial scale - in the past 18 months they've issued around 50,000 tickets. There's unlikely to be the level of sophistication you are imagining.

Vixter33

Umkomaas wrote: »

You're overthinking this. They deal with these tickets on an industrial scale - in the past 18 months they've issued around 50,000 tickets. There's unlikely to be the level of sophistication you are imagining.

I thought so, thanks:j

pappa_golf

any info used has to come from the DVLA / lease co , not from elsewhere