Appealing multiple permit related PCN's from LDK over an extended period

Rai_

Firstly I just wanted to put a quick thank you to this forum for simply existing... I'm not sure what I'd be doing by now if I didn't have this source of info. I also wanted to state that I've read through the pinned Newbie's post, as well as trying unsuccessfully to search for a thread close to my specific set of circumstances. If this thread is unneccessary I apologise but I have had a look round and I'm still not entirely sure my situation has come up already. In any case...

I'm currently a full time student at Durham University. I'm living in my student accommodation for the next year over the summer so as to hold down a job and I've got my car with me. I'm living on a road that has council-managed permit parking, however my estate agent failed to make clear that my specific property does not fall under this council scheme, and is privately managed by LDK Security Ltd under the employment of the HM Prison Service for the purposes of employee parking.

There is a small road adjacent to my property with a large amount of parking, and at the entrance to the road there are multiple signs stating that the street is for resident's use. LDK security have several cut/paste posters around that provide the information stating the area is permit only. Interestingly enough, they make specific reference to "the store" so I believe these signs are simply regular LDK templates.

Upon arrival I tried to get in touch with LDK and was unable to find any contact information online that would be able to put me in touch with a human such that I could try to apply for a permit. At this point I already had my car with me so I parked there and went into the prison reception to ask. I was given the contact information for the prison finance office who handle permits and I was told by the receptionists to park there, leaving a handwritten note in the car and get in touch with the finance office within working hours.

Since I'm currently here to work full time, my work hours clash perfectly with the finance office. I got in touch a few weeks later at the first opportunity. In this period, I never received any windscreen notices.

When I got in touch with the finance office I was then told by the manager of the prison parking scheme that I was not able to be issued a permit, and that any parking charges received in that time were not able to be waived directly, since the prison was required to pay a £10 fee for every cancelled ticket, but as a gesture of goodwill, I could simply pay the fee to the prison for any tickets given before the time of the call, on the understanding that I would then move my car.

Since then, my car has been moved to another location, but the PCN's have started to arrive by untracked postage to my home address. My parents received these, and tell me that multiple notices are arriving within a single envelope (they mentioned that they believe this is not correct practice, but it's a detail I wanted to check with you guys). At the time of writing I have 5 PCN's from over a 2-week period.

I guess now down to my actual questions:
1) The only reason I am aware of these notices is due to the fact they arrived, untracked, to an address where my parents live. My parents believe the 'lost in the post' card can be played to ignore these notices. Is this correct?

2) I have an agreement with the prison parking manager that I can simply pay the £10 cancellation fee for any PCN's received, however I now have 5 (at the time of writing), which has still racked up the cost of that approach. Is there any way that these PCN's could be changed to a single violation that can be cancelled with a single £10 payment?


3) If the worst comes to the worst and I have to go through the rigmarole of an appeal, does each ticket need to be appealed individually and independently, or can an appeal be made for the whole set of citations?

4) In either situation, would the information provided above (untracked postage, multiple PCN per envelope, failure of estate agent, difficulty in finding permit information, false resident's access signage) hold up in an appeal?

Thank you all for any information you can provide helping me out with this one, since I figure this is a bit of an odd situation, and apologies again if this is considered a repost / spam as I wasn't aware.
Sam

DollyDee_2

Sounds a nightmare situation and I'm sorry but I can't offer any advice. The only thing I would say is LDK will have obtained the Registered Keeper's address from the DVLA. So if the address on your V5 document is still your parent's that is why the PCN's were sent there.

LDK have to apply for the registered keeper's details for every PCN so at some stage you could ask the DVLA (in writing) for details of how many times details were requested from date xx.xx.xx to date xx.xx.xx.

I'm sure someone will be along to help you soon.

Umkomaas

1. Won't work; you risk a default CCJ and devastating damage to your credit rating (and your life for 6 years) if you play that one.
2. Something to ask the Prison Service, not us.
3. Individually and independently, but you can use the ready made template in the newbies thread for copy and pasting for each one.
4. None of that works.

LDK are BPA AOS members so potentially beatable at POPLA. Right NOW, you need to be getting photographs of those generic signs, as the signage is the basis of the 'contract' LDK will be arguing you entered into with them by parking where you did.

You need to set up a spreadsheet to manage each ticket (make sure you use the correct PCN for each) as you will need to be sending in appeals at different time points as per the newbies FAQ sticky and managing each through to conclusion - separately. No shortcut on this.

And follow Dolly's advice and request the data from the DVLA. You cannot go to sleep on this one, you must take control, otherwise the mess you are in now will just get worse the longer you leave it.

LDK have had a couple of court cases in the past two years (they may have been totally unconnected with parking - but we can't be sure), but with multiple ticket cases, the odds on a PPC taking a punt at court do shorten.

https://bmpa.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/203720371-LDK-Security-Group-Ltd

http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/LDK_Security_Group.html

Get on this case - as a student you will be well used to using research techniques, now is the time to put those skills to further effect.

Redx

Rai_ wrote: »

I guess now down to my actual questions:

1) The only reason I am aware of these notices is due to the fact they arrived, untracked, to an address where my parents live. My parents believe the 'lost in the post' card can be played to ignore these notices. Is this correct?

2) I have an agreement with the prison parking manager that I can simply pay the £10 cancellation fee for any PCN's received, however I now have 5 (at the time of writing), which has still racked up the cost of that approach. Is there any way that these PCN's could be changed to a single violation that can be cancelled with a single £10 payment?


3) If the worst comes to the worst and I have to go through the rigmarole of an appeal, does each ticket need to be appealed individually and independently, or can an appeal be made for the whole set of citations?

4) In either situation, would the information provided above (untracked postage, multiple PCN per envelope, failure of estate agent, difficulty in finding permit information, false resident's access signage) hold up in an appeal?

Sam

1) , no , legally they are deemed "delivered" 2 days after posting to the correct address as listed on the legal document , the V5C that YOU registered with the DVLA. There is no legal requirement to send them tracked or to track YOU down

it is what it is , deal with it

2) that is a matter between you and the Prison Service , nothing to do with the PPC (ie:- its a separate verbal contract and one the PPC is not a party to)

3) individually , even if they all go in one envelope , the same as they did with you , so each as its own appeal with a different pcn number , but can all be posted in one envelope , one stamp , getting a free certificate of posting at the P.O. Counter (to prove they were posted) - deemed "delivered" 2 days later , same as the LDK pcn,s

4) only signage , as that is always an appeal point , but several other appeal points will also be used later down the line , if you dont get them cancelled by the Prison

there is no requirement for LDK to post each pcn separately , they are merely invoices and can be posted separately or altogether