Please check my POPLA appeal.

knightstyle

So just before going to France for over two months I got a PCN from Smart Parking, I wrote an appeal and gave my French address, they ignored my request to correspond with me in France and sent a rejection to my UK address! So I now need to appeal via POPLA.
This is the wording I plan to use, I will not state who was driving.
All suggestions welcome, thanks in advance.

1. The car entered the car park at 16.58.01 and left at 17.19.48 a total time of 21 minutes and 47 seconds. The Marshals Yard website states “We also have four free temporary stay bays outside Next and M&S Simply Food which enable shoppers to nip in and out within 20 minutes free of charge.”
It takes two or three minutes to drive between the cameras the parking bays so time parked was less than the 20 minutes allowed to pop in and out of the shops.

In addition, Smart Parking are members of the British Parking Association whose code of practice states:
“13.4 You should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave the private car park after the parking contract has ended, before you take enforcement action. If the location is one where parking is normally permitted, the Grace Period at the end of the parking period should be a minimum of 10 minutes.”

2. B.P.A. Code of practice also states:
18.2Entrance signs play an important part in establishing a parking contract and deterring trespassers. Therefore, as well as the signs you must have telling drivers about the terms and conditions for parking, you must also have a standard form of entrance sign at the entrance to the parking area. Entrance signs must tell drivers that the car park is managed and that there are terms and conditions they must be aware of.

As can be seen on the attached photograph the entrance has no such sign visible when entering the car park and there are none as you park. There is a sign in the loading bay on the exit side of the road, it is often hidden by vehicles leaving the area and those parked in the loading bay.

http://i1040.photobucket.com/albums/b403/mycaravan/Marshals%20Yard%201_zpsmp07mswh.jpg
http://i1040.photobucket.com/albums/b403/mycaravan/Marshals%20Yard%202_zps1hz3tv7a.jpg

bod1467

Do you have an original thread regarding this issue? If yes then it would be much easier for everyone if you'd posted there rather than creating a new thread. As a minimum you should post a link to your original thread.

Your POPLA appeal is very light - there are loads more appeal points you've missed (POFA non-compliance, locus standi - standing to bring a claim, etc).

Regarding the Marshall's website, make it clear that this was the case at the time of the alleged overstay.

knightstyle

Thanks, no there is no other thread on THIS PCN, I did another on a separate PCN for someone else about disabled parking and I asked on tech for a copy of the website as it used to be.
Yes I intend to follow the newbies thread to list the usual non compliance stuff if that is needed but thought this would suffice?

Redx

the BPA CoP also has a grace period at the beginning of a parking even too , the sum total of both grace periods could be construed as 21 minutes , 10 to arrive and park and read the signs , 11 minutes or more to leave the site , never mind the parking time allowed (not "time on site")

no idea why you only quoted and used half of clause #13 , doesnt make sense to use the end but not the beginning

no contract is another appeal point , because I think you need to add a few more points plus amend the clause #13 section

so

no contract
poor signage
grace periods

to name but 3

knightstyle

UPDATE, Thanks for advice, here is what I now propose.


I am appealing on behalf of the owner on the following grounds, each of which I feel are strong enough on their own to allow the appeal.
Smart Parking have told the press “Smart Parking abides by the British Parking Association Code of Conduct, and we operate a clear and fair appeals procedure.” so here are some extracts from the BPA code of practice and where Marshals Yard car park does not comply with them.


1. The car entered the car park at 16.58.01 and left at 17.19.48 a total time of 21 minutes and 47 seconds. At the time the Marshals Yard website stated “We also have four free temporary stay bays outside Next and M&S Simply Food which enable shoppers to nip in and out within 20 minutes free of charge.”
It takes two or three minutes to drive between the cameras and the parking bays so time parked was less than the 20 minutes allowed to pop in and out of the shops.

In addition, Smart Parking are members of the British Parking Association whose code of practice states:
“13.4 You should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave the private car park after the parking contract has ended, before you take enforcement action. If the location is one where parking is normally permitted, the Grace Period at the end of the parking period should be a minimum of 10 minutes.”
So as the actual overstay was for less than 2 minutes this grace period should apply.


2. B.P.A. Code of practice also states:
18.2 Entrance signs play an important part in establishing a parking contract and deterring trespassers. Therefore, as well as the signs you must have telling drivers about the terms and conditions for parking, you must also have a standard form of entrance sign at the entrance to the parking area. Entrance signs must tell drivers that the car park is managed and that there are terms and conditions they must be aware of. Entrance signs must follow some minimum general principles and be in a standard format. The size of the sign must take into account the expected speed of vehicles approaching the car park, and it is recommended that you follow Department for Transport guidance on this. See Appendix B for an example of an entrance sign and more information about their use. A standard form of entrance sign must be placed at the entrance to the parking area. There may be reasons why this is impractical, for example: • when there is no clearly defined car park entrance • when the car park is very small • at forecourts in front of shops and petrol filling stations • at parking areas where general parking is not permitted

As can be seen on the attached photographs 1 and 2 the entrance has no such sign visible when entering the car park. There is a sign in the loading bay on the exit side of the road, it is often hidden by vehicles leaving the area and those parked in the loading bay.
So no contract was entered into by the driver.



3. The only signs visible to the driver are at the payment machines, the do not tell drivers what Smart Parking will use the data from the APNR cameras for, see pic 6.

21.1) You may use ANPR camera technology to manage, control and enforce parking in private car parks, as long as you do this in a reasonable, consistent and transparent manner. Your signs at the car park must tell drivers that you are using this technology and what you will use the data captured by ANPR cameras for.

Edna_Basher

Although bod1467 has highlighted two very important points which should be included in every POPLA appeal, you still haven't included them:

1. Non compliance with Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (POFA) - Smart do not even attempt to use POFA to claim keeper liability.

2. No authority from the landowner to make contracts with drivers in its own right, or to pursue charges for breach in its own name

Also, if Smart's claim is against you, your submission to POPLA needs to written in your capacity as the vehicle's keeper (as defined in Schedule 4 of POFA), not "on behalf of the owner".

knightstyle

Thanks, will look at adding a couple of bits about this, anywhere recent I can copy and paste from?
I am not the registered keeper, it is my DWs car but I was driving, I will not admit this when appealing.