Draconion Deed of Guarantee

BeatTheSystem

XKC-Me wrote: »

Normal? No. Unknown? Far from. Ultimately university students aren't desperately reliable tenants, so landlords often want some form of security.

As you say, paying upfront would be an alternative security which would be less onerous on you. For that reason the landlord might not accept it - but you may as well ask. If they refuse then you have to find your daughter alternative accommodation or sign it.

You didn't say if anything else has been signed yet. If the AST has already been signed by both sides (i.e. you have a copy signed by them) then obviously you could just call the landlord's bluff since your daughter would already have a right to move in. The landlord might try (immediately but unlawfully, or partway through the year but lawfully) to evict her.

I should add, I wouldn't sign it if I were you. Worst case scenario is anyone in the house holds a party and trashes the place - costing you many thousands. And while I'd hardly call that likely, it isn't exactly unknown either. The chances of someone doing a runner on their rent, or causing some damage to their room, aren't tiny.

Result! :j Agent agreed to take rent in advance and waived requirement for deed of guarantee.

BeatTheSystem

silvercar wrote: »

Problem generally is that landlords can be picky, they would rather a student tenant with a guarantee than one without. Balance that with the grotty student accommodation around and if you want your offspring to live somewhere vaguely decent you are going to have to be prepared to offer some sort of security.

Given that some landlords operating in this sector are pretty awful at sorting maintenance issues, I'm not sure that paying all the rent upfront is the best way to proceed.

I have paid up front and would rather do so than have an open ended unlimited liability, a price well worth paying. The accommodation had been vetted by the university and is hardly the Ritz but satisfactory.

anselld

BeatTheSystem wrote: »

Result! :j .

That remains to be seen!

Lily-Rose_3

BeatTheSystem wrote: »

Thank you, I will try and speak with the landlord directly.

BeatTheSystem wrote: »

Result! :j Agent agreed to take rent in advance and waived requirement for deed of guarantee.

Well done. Glad it's sorted.

anselld wrote: »

That remains to be seen!

I don't get this remark. ^ The OP said she was going to talk to the agent about it, then she did, and the agent agreed to rent in advance, and waived need for guarantor.

So what 'remains to be seen?' :huh:

Personally, as the OP said, I would rather pay 6 months rent in advance, than sign an open ended agreement, with unlimited liability for any damages or non payment of rent for any of the students living in the property....... Sorry, but you have to be some special kind of foolish to sign such an agreement.

I can't believe landlords and agents have the cheek to expect ANYone to sign such a document. It's an utter cheek actually. It's about time these reprehensible agreements were abolished .......

Lily-Rose_3

Pixie5740 wrote: »

If you are acting as guarantor you're agreeing to cover what your daughter is legally liable for.

And in the case of the OP, also the non payment of rent, and damages caused by other tenants in the house, (if their guarantors are unable to pay.)

The landlord can and WILL come after the parents for the money if there is multiple 1000s in damages or non payment of rent. ALL PARENTS. And if one can't pay, he will move onto the next, and the next, until he finds a parent who has a few grand in their bank account. And as they are a guarantor who is jointly liable, they will have to pay, even if their son or daughter has paid their rent OK, and has not caused any damage.

It's shocking, the amount of people I see on forums like this, (and in real life,) who are crying into their pillow, because they are having to cough up 4 or 5 grand for non payment of rent and damage done by perfect strangers in their son or daughter's shared house. But they signed as a joint liability guarantor, and therefore don't have a leg to stand on.

anselld wrote: »

It is no more draconian than the contract your Daughter is signing. If you don't want to sign then she should not sign either and she should seek a tenancy with single room agreements.

Yes it is.

silvercar wrote: »

Problem generally is that landlords can be picky, they would rather a student tenant with a guarantee than one without. Balance that with the grotty student accommodation around and if you want your offspring to live somewhere vaguely decent you are going to have to be prepared to offer some sort of security.

Given that some landlords operating in this sector are pretty awful at sorting maintenance issues, I'm not sure that paying all the rent upfront is the best way to proceed.

So what you're saying is that if repairs are not done to the tenants satisfaction, they should not pay rent. Not allowed I'm afraid. They are two separate issues. You can't just stop paying rent because you're not satisfied with the maintenance and repairs to the property. It doesn't work like that.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/housing/repairs-in-rented-housing/disrepair-what-are-your-options-if-you-are-a-private-rented-tenant/withholding-rent-because-of-disrepair/

anselld

Lily-Rose wrote: »

Yes it is.

It is not. It can only guarantee the daughters obligations under the contract therefore it cannot be "more draconian".

Neither does paying in advance change the daughter's obligations. The OP may have washed their own hands of any issues but that does not change the Daughter's position. For example she could still get a CCJ for someone else's unpaid rent despite having paid a year in advance!

I do hope the OP's celebration is not premature but I can think of plenty of scenarios where they will bitterly regret paying a year in advance.

BeatTheSystem

Lily-Rose wrote: »

And in the case of the OP, also the non payment of rent, and damages caused by other tenants in the house, (if their guarantors are unable to pay.)

The landlord can and WILL come after the parents for the money if there is multiple 1000s in damages or non payment of rent. ALL PARENTS. And if one can't pay, he will move onto the next, and the next, until he finds a parent who has a few grand in their bank account. And as they are a guarantor who is jointly liable, they will have to pay, even if their son or daughter has paid their rent OK, and has not caused any damage.

It's shocking, the amount of people I see on forums like this, (and in real life,) who are crying into their pillow, because they are having to cough up 4 or 5 grand for non payment of rent and damage done by perfect strangers in their son or daughter's shared house. But they signed as a joint liability guarantor, and therefore don't have a leg to stand on.



Yes it is.



So what you're saying is that if repairs are not done to the tenants satisfaction, they should not pay rent. Not allowed I'm afraid. They are two separate issues. You can't just stop paying rent because you're not satisfied with the maintenance and repairs to the property. It doesn't work like that.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/housing/repairs-in-rented-housing/disrepair-what-are-your-options-if-you-are-a-private-rented-tenant/withholding-rent-because-of-disrepair/

Quite, my sentiments exactly.

The landlord will come after whoever they feel will give the best chance of recovery. I have substantial savings and would be a target. It could be any of the guarantors arbitrarily and unfairly that are targeted.

I could not believe the content of the deed of guarantee when I read it, I am amazed that other parents have actually signed this as you say it should be outlawed - disgusting approach, 2 of the 4 have signed it up till now. We, the parents were only given a couple of days to read and sign. This is very bad practice and because there is a lack of accommodation everyone is under extreme pressure to sign up.

A fairer system might be for the university to act as guarantors, if a student absconds or causes damage then they lose their degree and still have to pay fees.

anselld

BeatTheSystem wrote: »

Quite, my sentiments exactly.

Nothing beats being told what you want to hear ;-)

BeatTheSystem wrote: »

I could not believe the content of the deed of guarantee when I read it, I am amazed that other parents have actually signed this as you say it should be outlawed - disgusting approach, 2 of the 4 have signed it up till now. We, the parents were only given a couple of days to read and sign. This is very bad practice and because there is a lack of accommodation everyone is under extreme pressure to sign up.

You are missing the point that it is Joint and Several Liability tenancy with complete strangers which, if anything, is draconian. You seem quite happy to let your Daughter sign up so long as you are not involved.

BeatTheSystem

anselld wrote: »

It is not. It can only guarantee the daughters obligations under the contract therefore it cannot be "more draconian".

Neither does paying in advance change the daughter's obligations. The OP may have washed their own hands of any issues but that does not change the Daughter's position. For example she could still get a CCJ for someone else's unpaid rent despite having paid a year in advance!

I do hope the OP's celebration is not premature but I can think of plenty of scenarios where they will bitterly regret paying a year in advance.

Thank you for your concern and caution. There are risks, but on balance I prefer not to have signed an unlimited liability agreement. In my line of work I have seen plenty of consequential loss contracts which can and do take whole companies down. The deed of guarantee if it was a Business to Business contract it would not be signed and would be countered by the in-house contract lawyer. The letting agent is relying on peoples ignorance of such matters and is disgusting.

You are right, she still has obligations but I feel more in control of the situation.

I actually have not washed my hands, Some scenarios, if she causes damage I would voluntarily pay up, if she quits (which I doubt) the others wont suffer, by paying up front others are in a stronger position. If say there is a 2K debt right at the end for whatever reason and paying up got her out of a CCJ I would club in with the others (that have signed the deed of guarantee).

A benefit for my daughter is that she does not have to collect or give money to a lead tenant each month which I am sure will be stressful.

The fact of the matter is that I am more in control of the situation.

This exercise has exposed me to the disgusting world of renting and the sharp practices of letting agents and landlords. What a state we are in the whole system needs revising.

BeatTheSystem

anselld wrote: »

Nothing beats being told what you want to hear ;-)



You are missing the point that it is Joint and Several Liability tenancy with complete strangers which, if anything, is draconian. You seem quite happy to let your Daughter sign up so long as you are not involved.

No I am not and you are absolutely right that such a contract between strangers is extremely unfair, however I am awaiting a revised contract reflecting better our position. She is still exposed, I don't disagree with your point, however her situation is recoverable should the worst imaginal scenario happen and as I have said I am not walking away I always do the right thing but don't need to sign a document drafted by Lucifer's lawyer to do so.