JSA Sanction Question

Savvy_Sue

I know where I work (small charity) that volunteers can gain valuable experience which helps them get paid work, sometimes with us, but we do NOT use volunteering as a substitute for paid work, nor do we use it as an introduction to working for us.

sangie595

johnsmithy wrote: »

I know I will get a job and I have vast qualifications and experience but it hasn't happened yet and I just wanted to know what the sanctions would be, if any, if I refused voluntary work and I believe most would rather avoid this aspect if they could and in regards to taxes, well, I am sorry but its not actually my fault with the situation I find myself in - it was medical issues, my mental health and the future of the job progression was in jeopardy - what would you do?

I am sorry, but from what I can see you have been out of work for over eighteen months now, so your vast qualifications and experience really are not doing much for you. Plenty of people (including me) have medical issues and disabilities, and still manage to work, so the answer to what I would do is plain - I would carry on working. Because I have severe disabilities and I work. And I volunteer on top of that, when I genuinely am not getting anything out of it other than helping others, and happy to help others instead of sitting around feeling sorry for myself.

And as for you being willing to help out someone else if they were worse off than you - you are being given that chance! You think that all the people and communities you could volunteer with will all be better off than you?

There are all sorts of reasons why life isn't "plain sailing", but life is what you make of it. You are simply sitting there saying that you are happier doing absolutely nothing whilst claiming benefits because you 'don't owe anybody anything for the money you are getting'. So yes, I do find that attitude disappointing. More than that, I find it disappointing that someone, whether employed or not, can look around at the world they live in and say that they wouldn't consider volunteering at all, for anything, unless it led to a job for themselves. You are awash with time on your hands, and you can't spend just a little amount of it doing something for someone else unless you get something out of it?

Firetastic

I've done a lot of voluntary work and it has looked good on my CV. It has been commented on in Interviews.

I actually really enjoy my voluntary work and really enjoy what I am doing now. However I am still applying for jobs.

Take what you can get. All experience is good experience and is better than nothing.

FredG

sangie595 wrote: »

Most reputable voluntary and community organisations aren't all that interested in you either. They want volunteers who want to volunteer, not people who are there because they only want to keep their benefits.

On the other hand, right now you are being given the chance to find something that you would be happy to do - when it becomes compulsory, you will do and go where you are told to.

To be honest, I find your attitude disappointing, but not surprising. You aren't giving up your time for free. You would be helping others instead of yourself, and you are going to be paid to do it with my money. To be honest, paying taxes for your benefits isn't something I really want to do, but then I guess we can't always have what we want.

Of course, there is another alternative. Get a job.

To make this kind of statement without knowing the OP's working history is a bit presumptuous. Yes, he could have worded the part about not wanting to give up his free time a little better as this can be like a red rag to a bull in some parts but how do you know that the OP hasn't worked his entire life and fallen on recent hard times?


The benefits system is meant to be a safety net, there will always be people who make it a lifestyle choice but to immediately presume that the OP is one of this minority is a little unfair.


If I was to fall upon hard times (and to be fair I'm pretty lucky I haven't after 3 redundancies thanks to rich men gambling with large economies like they're playing online poker), I too wouldn't be too happy about being forced into voluntary work in order to keep receiving the help from a system I've contributed a lot to for many years.


I do some volunteer tech work for a local charity at the moment in addition to full time employment - does that mean if I feel that the government doesn't own its population as a free source of labour that I'm suddenly a lazy scrounger because I find it disagreeable?


Best of luck in the search OP.

dcouponzzzz

This OP really struck a nerve with me. I can understand if there were extenuating circumstances, however 'I don't want to work for free' is a cop out. You're not volunteering for free, you're being paid by every worker in the country. Just because you can choose to do nothing doesn't make it acceptable if other opportunity is available, and asking the working public for advice on maintaining your funded work-free lifestyle is reprehensible.

I appreciate that you've submitted 400 applications, but was every single one tailored to the role and given your full attention throughout the process? Did you receive 400 constructive feedback sessions and take notes to improve the next app? Because that in itself would take up a significant amount of your time, and after 400 improvements I'd expect it to be perfect. Also, volunteering during periods of unemployment would fill the gaps which employers look at and think 'what did this guy do for 18 months?'

I do volunteer myself at a local abandoned animal shelter when I get the time to, cleaning rabbit pens, painting, sweeping up moss, scrubbing floors and toilets. Not something I share often unless prompted. They offer volunteer opportunities for something as simple as data entry to input donation amounts and names etc into spreadsheets. It's not all hard work but it's all valuable to the charity.

sangie595

But, you see, I don't agree with you.

FredG wrote: »

To make this kind of statement without knowing the OP's working history is a bit presumptuous. Yes, he could have worded the part about not wanting to give up his free time a little better as this can be like a red rag to a bull in some parts but how do you know that the OP hasn't worked his entire life and fallen on recent hard times? Because I know that he has been unemployed for 18 months now (as I said) - his previous posting history tells us that. So it isn't like they are recent hard times. And I could certainly understand someone who works full time not wanting, or being able to, give up their "free time". The OP has nothing but "free time", and this would be included as part of their job search process, so they wouldn't be giving up anything at all.


The benefits system is meant to be a safety net, there will always be people who make it a lifestyle choice but to immediately presume that the OP is one of this minority is a little unfair. I made no such assumption. If I made any assumptions, it was that someone who has been out of work for 18 months would be willing to try anything to help them get back to work, and that they shouldn't need to be forced into doing something (I am not, and have never said that I am, in favour of "forced volunteering"). And I agree that the benefits system is supposed to be a safety net. After 18 months that "safety net" is a little worn. I didn't assume that the OP had made it a lifestyle choice - but they are well within the danger zone where they may have little alternative unless they get back to work, and refusing to do anything that may help them to do so is certainly a choice. If they don't get back to work soon, they may as well make it a lifestyle choice, because they won't have any other option.


If I was to fall upon hard times (and to be fair I'm pretty lucky I haven't after 3 redundancies thanks to rich men gambling with large economies like they're playing online poker), I too wouldn't be too happy about being forced into voluntary work in order to keep receiving the help from a system I've contributed a lot to for many years. The OP hasn't been forced. They have had a suggestion made to them. A good suggestion. It will certainly come to being forced eventually, and at that point all choice is removed from them as to what to do and where to go - and the schemes that are available under that compulsion are far less likely to provide the OP with anything interesting to do, or useful for employment purposes. "I was forced to go work in a charity shop" doesn't con any employer into thinking they are getting a good worker. There are far more opportunities available, and really interesting and challenging things to do - but none of them are on the "compulsory list". You actually have to volunteer for those.


I do some volunteer tech work for a local charity at the moment in addition to full time employment - does that mean if I feel that the government doesn't own its population as a free source of labour that I'm suddenly a lazy scrounger because I find it disagreeable? I also didn't say that. I said that it is disappointing that someone with so much free time on their hands is so opposed to volunteering that they have to be forced into it. Not that they ought to be forced into it. And certainly not that they are a scrounger. But I do think that the OP's complaint that they would be volunteering for free is not true. They are being paid for that time they spend volunteering, and the fact that their income is a benefit does not change that.


Best of luck in the search OP.

Flyonthewall

sangie595 wrote: »

On the other hand, right now you are being given the chance to find something that you would be happy to do - when it becomes compulsory, you will do and go where you are told to.

^ This.

If they're suggesting volunteering then chances are it's because they're soon going to be ordering you to do volunteering and they could send you anywhere.

It's better to have a say where to go than be forced into it.

johnsmithy wrote: »

I'd be happy to do a scheme if it guaranteed an opportunity at the end of it.

Some may say there's a chance and you may have more of a chance with some than others, but none will guarantee it even they have a position. They can't as it all depends how things go once you start volunteering and whether the position is filled by someone else in the time it takes for them to see if you'd be suitable.

Also, I told my adviser about my issues and they agreed and I've applied for well over 400 jobs so nobody can accuse me of not trying.

Quality over quantity. Sending off over 400 rushed/untailored CVs doesn't mean much. Are your applications well written and tailored to the job spec for each job you apply for?

I'll give it some thought and see what occurs - its not my first choice, volunteering, but if it must be, it must be, if only to enhance my CV.

Why are you so against volunteering?

It gives you recent work experience which looks good on your CV, you may learn some new skills (again, looks good on your CV), you can meet new people and it can help greatly with mental health.

Yes, you have to give up some of your time, but it doesn't have to be all day everyday.

It could be one day a week, one morning a week even. How much time you give is up to you.

At least, it is while it's your choice. Once the job centre get involved you're probably looking at 20 hours+ a week.

FredG

sangie595 wrote: »

But, you see, I don't agree with you.

Apologies, and thank you for the clarifying post.


My fault for posting while unaware of the background. All your points are entirely spot on.

sangie595

FredG wrote: »

Apologies, and thank you for the clarifying post.


My fault for posting while unaware of the background. All your points are entirely spot on.

And thank you. It's useful, especially when post count is low, to skim back. There is often useful information in previous posts that people forget to mention. My advice would have been rather different, although I would still recommend volunteering as something worth doing to anyone, if the OP had been out of work a couple of months. Eighteen months and 400 applications in, there is something seriously wrong, and any option that might improve chances is worth grabbing. Plus, as others have also said - is good for you! Research has shown that volunteers are happier people and more positive about life. So if one is struggling, it's good for you. I can tell you from personal experience that it helps me be more positive about my health.

FredG

sangie595 wrote: »

And thank you. It's useful, especially when post count is low, to skim back. There is often useful information in previous posts that people forget to mention. My advice would have been rather different, although I would still recommend volunteering as something worth doing to anyone, if the OP had been out of work a couple of months. Eighteen months and 400 applications in, there is something seriously wrong, and any option that might improve chances is worth grabbing. Plus, as others have also said - is good for you! Research has shown that volunteers are happier people and more positive about life. So if one is struggling, it's good for you. I can tell you from personal experience that it helps me be more positive about my health.

Definitely, my placement was made through my employer at a sensory centre for the disabled. Massively rewarding and looks good on a CV too.