UKPC flipped valid ticket - POPLA verdict?

fred_davies

Hi All,

Recently I got a parking charge from the UKPC-run car park in Birmingham Curzon Street, for 'parked without clearly displaying a valid pay and display ticket'. This was pasted on my windscreen at 10am, with a ticket inside the window, albiet flipped-over in the draught from closing my door.

The serial code was on display, and the ticket itself shows the purchase date and time being completely valid. (In addition, the ticket says 'place ticket on dashboard', but doesn't say which way up!)
I went to the booth and the gentleman inside said not to worry about it, as there is a code on the back of the ticket so that they could identify the ticket when upside down All i needed to do was send a photo of the other side of the ticket which also shows the same code, and all would be well. I did this, but kept the ticket, sensibly...

Today I received a letter stating that '..the appeals manager has personally reviewed your case and carefully considered the various points you raised. Their view however is that the Parking Charge has been correctly issuesd so it will not be waived. This is our final decision. However, in consideration of the information you provided, and on the basis payment is received by us within 35 days of the date of this letter we will accept the sum of £15 in full settlement of the parking charge'

There are also photos of my car on the UKPC website as 'evidence', however they're of such poor quality you can't see details on the ticket.

This charge has dropped from £100 to £60 if paid within 14 days, to £15 now they are charging me the cost of the admin and staff time to write a letter, and effectively implying its easier to pay up than contest this amount of money.

The implication is that having a valid ticket is of no value once you're 'in the computer system' as the guy at the booth would have ripped up an manual fee there and then.

Would POPLA likely agree to cancel this charge? Should I just pay up due to a gust of wind?

Thanks
Fred

Redx

I doubt they would cancel on the basis you describe and nobody in their right mind would guarantee anyone a popla win as they make some strange decisions

but you can normally beat this PPC with the standard legal arguments

Coupon-mad

Did you admit who was driving, writing your appeal in the first person 'I did this/that'? If so then that's not great at all (shot yourself in the foot) but POPLA is still worth a try. But POPLA WILL NOT uphold an appeal written about the story of what happened, a flipped ticket, etc.

You need to read some UKPC POPLA threads to see what does win, and show us a draft POPLA appeal copied from them, with the usual legal points. Search this forum board for 'UKPC POPLA'.

This needs to be written in a style unlike the way you first appealed, so get searching and reading.

fred_davies

Thank you both. I've carried on searching posts but can't see any sample letters contesting a similar story. This is the first charge I've had, and likely not the last; the practice seems to be so sharp.

I found this post, the closest I can get, with an unsuccessful result. This is at least partly due to not supplying a scan of the ticket, but largely just blaming the driver for not paying attention to the ticket.

By entering my details to appeal the charge I may have reduced the charge by 75% as they obviously know they're in the wrong, but they've sneakily offered a settlement figure that they know would take me evenings of research and a lot of luck to contest. Angry about this.

Coupon-mad

I've carried on searching posts but can't see any sample letters contesting a similar story.

That's because you don't want to mention the permit flipping in a POPLA appeal, it is pointless. So you won't see that point covered in any examples except the odd losing one where people have come here too late, having written a useless POPLA appeal about the flipped ticket. Which is what we are telling you to FORGET ABOUT!

You are looking for the wrong thing. You want a standard UKPC POPLA appeal like the ones we work on most weeks here.

fred_davies

OK,

I've looked for the standard legal topics:
POFA 2012 - I've already told them I was the driver, which must be why I got the letter given that they're banned from getting data from the DVLA. So that's off the table..
No standing to bring charges - I see others have failed with that recently, and end up in more dialogue about having the parking charge firm having a letter to operate being enough.
Inadequate signage - The signage is quite small on the photos they've supplied as evidence, but as I live 50 miles away from Birmingham it's a 2hr round trip to return there and collect more evidence. Unsure if there's a big charge sign as well.

I have a valid ticket - strangely having a valid ticket isn't enough, even to quosh things in the system.

I've seen the photos, and they don't appear doctored, just poor quality.

Am I missing a golden shot here? The above don't seem good enough.

Redx

yes you are missing the point

they have to prove their claim , so you allege that they have no contract , poor signage , porr inadequate photos , not the same as the Beavis case , any POFA2012 errors or NTK flaws , BPA CoP errors etc

they have to prove everything that you allege is flawed , but not if you dont mention it

as claimant they have to prove their case, you have to put them to strict proof

the same could be said for O J Simpson in his criminal case, it was up to the prosecution to prove their case, and for his defence to say it was flawed , like the glove etc

if you dont query it , then they get a free pass

Coupon-mad

POFA 2012 - I've already told them I was the driver, which must be why I got the letter given that they're banned from getting data from the DVLA. So that's off the table.

UKPC are not banned, haven't been since 2015.

No standing to bring charges - I see others have failed with that recently, and end up in more dialogue about having the parking charge firm having a letter to operate being enough.

We see lots of successes on that basis; it still works in many cases including UKPC appeals. They do not always show a letter to operate/witness statement from the landowner. Some win, some don't - but losing at POPLA isn't binding on a consumer anyway and people here don't then pay! A lost POPLA appeal is just annoying but nothing more.

Inadequate signage - The signage is quite small on the photos they've supplied as evidence, but as I live 50 miles away from Birmingham it's a 2hr round trip to return there and collect more evidence. Unsure if there's a big charge sign as well.

Good, use that photo. UKPC always show you the pale, high sign on their website in a dreadful photo taken on the day! You only have to Google 'UKPC Photos' and bung in your PCN and VRN to view it. Use that image as your evidence that it was unreadable/high. Everyone at a similar stage on here is told to use the UKPC photo in their own POPLA appeal. Almost always a bad photo and helpful to the consumer.

I have a valid ticket

That's not a POPLA appeal point.

You can also state that there is no commercial justification/legitimate interest in penalising people who DID pay to park, unlike the Beavis case which turned on different facts (you will find examples differentiating a P&D car park from the free licence offered in the Beavis case).

The_Deep

You have lost PoPLA but you can ignore unless and until they make a claim, but will they? You paid, they have lost nothing, and if they were up in front of a judge, what could they say, especially if their signs do not stipulate how a ticket must be displayed.

Redx

so at the moment its either pay £15 or go to popla and appeal it , those seem to be your options

if it ever went to court , the valid ticket argument could also be added to the mix

Coupon-mad

As it's only £15 it does warrant some consideration.