We're aware that some users are experiencing technical issues which the team are working to resolve. See the Community Noticeboard for more info. Thank you for your patience.
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!

Argos disputing laptop hinge fault

Options
Carl_Rogers_2
Carl_Rogers_2 Posts: 26 Forumite
edited 7 August 2016 at 5:19PM in Consumer rights
I've always bought pretty much everything from Argos, mainly because of their usually no quibble refund/replace etc service. Even though most products are fine and don't need to be returned, this gave me peace of mind.

However, I bought a Toshiba laptop 2 months ago, and a couple of weeks ago one of the hinges came loose, the laptop cost £300 and was supposed to be a hybrid, so the hinges are supposed to support full swivel to convert to a tablet or tent formation, or normal laptop, however one day one of the hinges failed and the screen just kept flopping back.

I took it back to Argos who said as it was out of 30 days it needed to be sent for repair, and if they decided it was misuse or accidental damage, I would be charged. Lo and behold - they said it was accidental damage and wanted to charge me £75 to repair it, I said no.

I then wrote to customer service and pointed out what had happened, and even mentioned the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

Their response was to say that their decision is final, and if I disagree with their report (which I don't yet have as I have to pick up the laptop tomorrow), I have to get an independent expert report at my own inconvenience and expense, to dispute their claim that there was no manufacturing fault with the hinge at the time of purchase.

I had barely even used the laptop, and the case was in pristine condition, so I will be intrigued to read their report.

However, surely under the Consumer Rights Act, the burden of proof is on them, rather than me - I am wondering if they have made a mistake in trying to shove the burden of proof back on to me?

They are certainly in danger of losing all my future custom for the sake of disputing a £75 repair - has something changed at Argos, they used to be the gold standard for customer service and no quibbles etc. There are plenty of reports of Toshiba laptop hinges being flimsy out on the net, and people being told it's "acccidental damage" and they have to pay outrageous fees for repairs, seems I have become a victim of this trend.

But anyway I digress - CRA 2015 says in first 6 months burden of proof is on retailer - does that mean they can just write a report backing their version of things, and then force me to pay for an independent expert report?

Say my report contradicts theirs - what do we do then, go to court? Perhaps they assume most people won't bother with all the hassle?

Comments

  • agrinnall
    agrinnall Posts: 23,344 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    All sounds about right to me - what do you expect them to do if the damage is because of misuse, just pay up regardless? Their report will show the evidence on which they have made their decision, if you disagree with it then you probably could just take it to court, but your word against their expert isn't likely to get you a win.
  • naedanger
    naedanger Posts: 3,105 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    But anyway I digress - CRA 2015 says in first 6 months burden of proof is on retailer - does that mean they can just write a report backing their version of things, and then force me to pay for an independent expert report?
    No it doesn't mean they can force you to pay for an independent report. You could take the matter to court now without any independent report.

    BUT they only need to prove the matter on the balance of probability they don't legally need to get an independent report. They might believe that they can convince a judge, on the balance of probability, that the damage was due to misuse/accident based on their report alone.

    If you believe you can cast sufficient doubt on their conclusion, without an independent report, you can take the matter to court now. (Obviously if you commissioned an independent report that supported your case then you would have a better chance of success.)
    Say my report contradicts theirs - what do we do then, go to court?
    Yes if necessary. Then it will be for the court to decide what to believe and how to resolve the dispute.
  • So really, who in their right mind is going to go through the stress and expense of some court or dispute process over a laptop that cost £300? I guess that's what they're relying on really. No I didn't misuse it, I've bought a dozen other pieces of technology from Argos in the last year, not had to take any of them back. I did step on portable hard drive - no I didn't take that back and try to get it replaced because I broke it and that would have been dishonest.

    In this case I have no recollection of misusing the laptop but appear to be presumed guilty and dishonest.

    I guess I'll just hook the laptop up as a desktop and continue to use the little Lenovo I bought as a replacement - thought I suppose if the soldered on eMMC drive fails at some point I'll be told I've misused it in some way, so I guess I might as well take my chances on eBay for future tech buys, it seems buying cheap and multiple redundancy is the way to go as opposed to investing in more expensive items, as they are not built to last 2 minutes these days it seems.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 26,612 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    So really, who in their right mind is going to go through the stress and expense of some court or dispute process over a laptop that cost £300?
    Someone who truly believes they have been the victim of an injustice.
    In this case I have no recollection of misusing the laptop but appear to be presumed guilty and dishonest.
    No, there is no such presumption. It's simply that your laptop was deemed damaged due to misuse and that contradicts your testimony that it wasn't.
    You realise that, by admitting you have no recollection, you are basically saying it might have been misused but you don't remember?
  • naedanger
    naedanger Posts: 3,105 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    edited 7 August 2016 at 8:11PM
    So really, who in their right mind is going to go through the stress and expense of some court or dispute process over a laptop that cost £300? I guess that's what they're relying on really. No I didn't misuse it, I've bought a dozen other pieces of technology from Argos in the last year, not had to take any of them back. I did step on portable hard drive - no I didn't take that back and try to get it replaced because I broke it and that would have been dishonest.

    In this case I have no recollection of misusing the laptop but appear to be presumed guilty and dishonest.

    I guess I'll just hook the laptop up as a desktop and continue to use the little Lenovo I bought as a replacement - thought I suppose if the soldered on eMMC drive fails at some point I'll be told I've misused it in some way, so I guess I might as well take my chances on eBay for future tech buys, it seems buying cheap and multiple redundancy is the way to go as opposed to investing in more expensive items, as they are not built to last 2 minutes these days it seems.

    How did you pay for the item?

    [If it was by credit card you have another option for trying to get redress, and one that involves no cost to you. But you would still need to convince someone (the credit card company or the Financial Ombudsman Service) that the fault was, more likely than not, inherent and not caused by misuse. ]
  • bris
    bris Posts: 10,548 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    naedanger wrote: »
    How did you pay for the item?

    [If it was by credit card you have another option for trying to get redress, and one that involves no cost to you. But you would still need to convince someone (the credit card company or the Financial Ombudsman Service) that the fault was, more likely than not, inherent and not caused by misuse. ]
    No chance of that working because Argos have their report so they will automatically side with them. They would then put the onus right back on the customer so no difference to the OP.


    It's not actually Argos to blame however, the manufacture who would be the ones to repair it make the decision not Argos.
  • naedanger
    naedanger Posts: 3,105 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    bris wrote: »
    No chance of that working because Argos have their report so they will automatically side with them. They would then put the onus right back on the customer so no difference to the OP.

    I agree the report is evidence that will need to be countered by the op. However, without seeing both the laptop and what the report says, I would not say the op has "no chance". (If I was in the op's position, had paid by credit card, and thought a neutral observer would not reach the same conclusion as the report then I would try to get redress via the credit card company as there is little to lose.)
    It's not actually Argos to blame however, the manufacture who would be the ones to repair it make the decision not Argos.
    For the avoidance of doubt, I am not blaming Argos or the manufacturer or the op.
  • ThumbRemote
    ThumbRemote Posts: 4,727 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    bris wrote: »
    It's not actually Argos to blame however, the manufacture who would be the ones to repair it make the decision not Argos.

    Which just shows how one-sided the law is in these cases. The retailer gets a report from the manufacturer, who have a vested financial interest in not admitting any faults. Meanwhile the consumer has to find someone independent to perform a report themselves.
  • Ectophile
    Ectophile Posts: 7,970 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    Which just shows how one-sided the law is in these cases. The retailer gets a report from the manufacturer, who have a vested financial interest in not admitting any faults. Meanwhile the consumer has to find someone independent to perform a report themselves.

    What else could the law be? How about anything returned in 30 days must be refunded even if it was obviously broken by the customer?

    Don't forget that if you have to pay for an independent report, you can add that cost to the claim you make.
    If it sticks, force it.
    If it breaks, well it wasn't working right anyway.
This discussion has been closed.
Meet your Ambassadors

🚀 Getting Started

Hi new member!

Our Getting Started Guide will help you get the most out of the Forum

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 350.9K Banking & Borrowing
  • 253.1K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 453.5K Spending & Discounts
  • 243.9K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 598.7K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 176.9K Life & Family
  • 257.1K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 16.1K Discuss & Feedback
  • 37.6K Read-Only Boards

Is this how you want to be seen?

We see you are using a default avatar. It takes only a few seconds to pick a picture.