Old Abbey National DB Scheme guide

liviboy

Hi all,

My mum is a deferred member of the old Abbey National / Santander DB pension (Santander (UK) Group Pension Scheme - Group Section 1996).

It's only worth £2,440pa and she has been given a CETV of around £70,000 (long story how she was introduced to the idea but hey ho). She feels she should probably take it given the annual pension amount is quite low and the transfer value quite high. She has been in regular contact with an IFA who has advised against the particular investment in question but suggested a SIPP may be the way to go.

She has her online account with BenPal (JLT), but she doesn't have a members scheme guide.

We just wondered if anyone had one at all? JLT haven't been quick to reply!

Thanks in advance :-)

bigadaj

Is this Benpal / Jlt administering the scheme currently?

How old is your mother and why is she interested in transferring the scheme?

What has the ifa advised against and is he an ifa and not an fa?

Is your mother confident managing investments in a sipp, how much will she be paying for advice for the transfer and what return is she expecting?

The cetv value doesn't look spectacularly high compared with what many others might be offering now, does she have other provisions for retirement. 4% guaranteed and inflation linked for life presumably doesn't look like a bad deal in the current environment.

xylophone

Is this Benpal / Jlt administering the scheme currently?

JLT is the administrator and Benpal is the online system giving deferred and active pensioners access to their personal details.

xylophone

She has her online account with BenPal (JLT), but she doesn't have a members scheme guide.

She has checked that there is no facility for downloading a guide from the Benpal site?

How old is your mother?

In which years did she work for Abbey National/Santander?

What is the Scheme's Normal Retirement Age?

It's only worth £2,440pa and she has been given a CETV of around £70,000 (long story how she was introduced to the idea but hey ho

. She has been in regular contact with an IFA who has advised against the particular investment in question but suggested a SIPP may be the way to go.

Sounds worrying? Are you implying undue influence?

Has your mother obtained a state pension statement?

https://www.gov.uk/check-state-pension

Does your mother have other pension provision ( from a current or other former employer)?

dunstonh

It's only worth £2,440pa and she has been given a CETV of around £70,000 (long story how she was introduced to the idea but hey ho). She feels she should probably take it given the annual pension amount is quite low and the transfer value quite high. She has been in regular contact with an IFA who has advised against the particular investment in question but suggested a SIPP may be the way to go.

Can we have more detail on this?

Who introduced her to what idea?
What investment was advised?
What is the IFA "suggesting" as an alternative?

This is very important as it suggests multiple interests at work and one may not be desirable and could even be dodgy.

liviboy

Hi all,

Thanks for the comments.

Firstly to put aside any fears she has been dealing with any dodgy things...she was introduced to the idea of an investment in car parks (Overseas and Domestic developments) which my uncle had successfully invested in and received returns. The investment has been advised against because it's not seen as good for a pension-style investment. Additionally this opportunity has now been lost regardless. The IFA was not affiliated with the investment but has worked with my uncle on his investments and has not taken any money for the work conducted so far. His fee would have been 3%.

My mum worked for Abbey National between the mid 1990s and 2004 when she moved overseas (to the USA).

She has pension provisions in the USA in the form of 401k plans and has a stock portfolio as well.

Family history suggests unfortunately not the longest of lifespans so the transfer value (which is around £80,00, not £70,000) was seen as potentially allowing a greater level of return/income than £2440pa (this has not changed since 2004 and will only be up rated by inflation once in payment).

The advisor has advised against the particular investment but has suggested a SIPP as a possible option if mum still wanted to transfer her pension.

However, we wanted to access the full scheme guide to find out if there were any other options whilst keeping her defined benefits.

Her pension age is 60 and she is currently 57.

On Ben Pal there are 3 documents

- 1 is a user guide to Ben Pal
- 1 is a Santander pension investment update about how good the fund is doing.
- 1 is an update sheet about pension changes in 2015

Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a scheme guide anywhere that I can see.

Thanks again so far.

hyubh

liviboy wrote: »

My mum worked for Abbey National between the mid 1990s and 2004

[snip]

the transfer value (which is around £80,00, not £70,000) was seen as potentially allowing a greater level of return/income than £2440pa (this has not changed since 2004 and will only be up rated by inflation once in payment).

Why not? 'Mid 90s' start suggests an (albeit very small) amount of GMP, presumably with fixed rate revaluation; the excess will then surely all be subject to statutory revaluations.

liviboy

hyubh wrote: »

Why not? 'Mid 90s' start suggests an (albeit very small) amount of GMP, presumably with fixed rate revaluation; the excess will then surely all be subject to statutory revaluations.

Well this is kinda why we'd like a scheme guide because from what we can see her annual pension hasn't changed in years and we have made an assumption that it will be updated by some form of inflation measure once in payment.

xylophone

It occurred to me that Santander and JLT had come up before and I have found this

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5018772

I notice that the deferred member of the A&L Section found that his scheme booklet was no longer available after the transfer to JLT.

However, JLT must supply a copy of Scheme Rules on request.


Female GMP age aligns with the Scheme NRA.

The OP's mother worked for Abbey National from 1995 (?) to 2004.

See https://www.barnett-waddingham.co.uk/comment-insight/blog/2012/07/24/revaluation-for-early-leavers/

"Leavers on or after 1 January 1991 Revaluation extended to cover the whole of the member's pension, in excess of the GMP. Annual increase applicable was the increase in the Retail Price Index (RPI), capped at 5% (sometimes known as 5% Limited Price Indexation - LPI)."

It seems likely that her GMP (all post 88) would have revalued by Fixed Rate. (4.5%).

Is the figure quoted only that for revalued GMP?

OP, is your mother still living in the US or is she back in the UK?



Presumably she was in employment in the UK for anything up to around thirty years?

Has she obtained a new state pension statement?

If she is still living in the US, has the IFA ( presumably qualified in Pensions Transfers) found a provider willing to accept the Pension Transfer?

Or is she looking to a QROPS?

https://www.gov.uk/transferring-your-pension/transferring-to-an-overseas-pension-scheme

liviboy

Hi there,

Thanks for the reply and the links.

She has requested a copy of the scheme guide but it hasn't been replied to as yet, hence my OP was asking if anyone had a copy of it just even in the interim. Hopefully she'll get a reply soon from JLT.

She is definitely under the impression that the pension amount hasn't been uplifted at all but she doesn't have her annual benefit statements to hand to double check but I've suggested she ask for these if possible to double check. Therefore I cannot answer your question about if the quoted amount is the GMP.

My mum is still living in the US and she believes that QROPS is not available to her as the amount is under 100,000 (25,000 for other countries but 100,000 for the USA apparently).

My mum still has several ties to the UK so I'm unsure if the IFA was looking to transfer overseas or to keep it UK based (not sure if this is possible). I'm only hearing about all of this now and trying to get all the details from her isn't easy haha!

She has not applied for a state pension statement but I'll look into doing this with her.

She worked from the age of 17 but did stop working when she became a mum for around 8 years.

Thanks again

hyubh

liviboy wrote: »

Well this is kinda why we'd like a scheme guide because from what we can see her annual pension hasn't changed in years and we have made an assumption that it will be updated by some form of inflation measure once in payment.

I really wouldn't just assume the worst, as doing so speciously makes transferring out sound a better idea than it really is. I'd suggest she requests an up-to-date statement of where her preserved benefits currently stand.

Likewise, I can't have been the only one who spluttered when reading the line 'to put aside any fears she has been dealing with any dodgy things...she was introduced to the idea of an investment in car parks (Overseas and Domestic developments)'. 'Introduced', 'investment in car parks', 'overseas' - blimey, if that was a scam, minus points for the scammers being quite so cliched.