Please help, CCJ claim form issued.

peter_the_piper

Quentin wrote: »

@OP


Following your change of your board name you need to pm peter the piper (#8) and ask him to edit your old name out of the quoted post contained in #8

Done, both :rotfl:

Gillan.99

Thanks for that reply,
It has put menat ease quite a bit ! 😊 I will start reading up and see if i can find a defense that would suit.
I was late returning to the car and the ticket was issued for that.
So basically the signage and the fact that they do not own the car park would be my main reasons in the defence is that correct?
In the regards being registered keeper could i not say that i was not driving on that day it must of been one of the other 3 named drivers on my policy then how could they prove who is liable and which driver the start court proceedings against?

The car park is now closed down and all signs are removed so there would be point in me returning there.

Thanks again for all the replies, very helpful 😊

Redx

yes you can provide a witness statement from yourself stating that you were not the driver on that day

their counter argument will be based on the presumption that the keeper and the driver will be one and the same person (Elliott vs Loake case or something like that, which was a criminal case I believe , research it anyway as its mentioned loads of times in various threads)

you would be arguing that VCS have failed POFA2012 and so as keeper you cannot be held accountable for this spurious charge

plus other defence points which include no locus standii, signage issues , CoP issues , not the same as the Beavis case , plus anything else

at this stage its a holding defence you are drafting, which includes bullet points of your defence arguments

the full detailed defence comes later in the process

and edit post 1) again and remove the capital letter before MY CAR on line 5

no admissions at all as to who the driver was or may have been, not on a public forum that parking companies and solicitors read daily

Coupon-mad

In the regards being registered keeper could i not say that i was not driving on that day it must of been one of the other 3 named drivers on my policy then how could they prove who is liable and which driver the start court proceedings against?

Yes - that's a good argument if you truthfully were not driving (or can't remember!). They have to prove who the driver was because they haven't used the POFA in their Notice to Keeper - VCS don't use that wording. In fact that's the main point of your defence.

Signs too, definitely a point of defence not to be missed. Put the Claimant to strict proof of the signs that were there at the time. You won't get to see that evidence yet (closer to the hearing only) but you can state that you are at a disadvantage as a registered keeper Defendant because there are no signs at that site now and the LBC did not include pictures of them, which are vital to your understanding the alleged 'contract' which purportedly bound the driver on that day.

You will see all the usual defence points repeated in several threads when you read enough of them.

If you send a SAR as well (to VCS directly with a £10 cheque = recommended, see the link) ask for all photos of the car and the photos of any sign that were taken on that day as well as all data held about you/your vehicle.

https://bmpa.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/206890469-6-Subject-Access-Requests-Easy-

You never know, you may see Excel signs instead of VCS ones. Do not wait for the SAR to come back before defending though.

shbates76

Hoping someone can advise me on here regarding similar issues as taken on the thread above.

I have received a final notice from BW legal demanding payment of £154 for parking without displaying a valid ticket on 18/4/2014. On receipt of the initial communication I registered an appeal citing reasons that I had not parked, I mearly stopped to collect my partner and collect the goods ( over£100 worth) I had purchased from the B&M store at Cavendish retail park in Keighly.I didn't notice any signage on entry so I stopped and occupied a parking space ( in an almost empty carpark) with the engine running for 5 minutes before moving to another part of the car park and stopping to allow my wife to Bob into a shop to use the public convenience.At all times my engine was running so I could move if required although as previously stated the carpark was almost empty.

I appealed on grounds that I didn't feel the charge was fair or proportionate to the alleged offence.I received a failed appeal letter ignoring all points raised.

After reading many articles and speaking to friends I was told that as the PCN wasn't issued by police or local authorities it wasn't legally binding and that I should ignore it.

I ignored all correspondence although the latest "Final notice "from BW implies they will take legal action through county court proceedings.By ignoring these letters am I delaying the inevitable and will I end up paying more including legal fees or are they just bully boy scare mongering tactics?

Redx

please start a new thread of your own , not hijacking somebody elses

thank you

Gillan.99

That's great,


Thanks again for all the help, i'll looking for a defense template and get it sent off asap, as for acknowledging the claim and getting the extra 14 days to sort out the defense is that done on the moneyclaim . gov . uk website?

Coupon-mad

as for acknowledging the claim and getting the extra 14 days to sort out the defense is that done on the moneyclaim . gov . uk website?

Yep, just create a Govt Gateway account and use the password on the claim form to log in and acknowledge, saying you will 'defend in full'. But leaving the defence box blank, not even 'TBA' in the defence box, in case the courts take that as your defence (awful but it happened).

Redx

Gillan.99 wrote: »

That's great,


Thanks again for all the help, i'll looking for a defense template and get it sent off asap,

you wont find any templates and I doubt that anyone has told you that you will find such templates , you have assumed a template is what you require, its not and there are none

but you will find examples of recent 2016 holding defences that you can plagiarise to draft your own holding defence , bespoke to you

Gillan.99

I have used the template from another thread and changed some parts of it to send away as my holding defense, could you please cast an eye over it and advise if there anything I should change? the changes I have made are highlighted in red. Thanks again everyone.




Dear BW Legal,

Re PCN number: ############

I am not ignoring your charge for a purported parking infraction. As this is purely a charge, issued under an alleged contract and the driver has not been identified, on the dates stated of the alleged parking offence I was working offshore so I can not held responsible for the alleged offense, there is three named drivers on my policy plus myself, could you please advise who exactly it is that you are pursuing.


I require the following information so that I can make an informed decision:

1. Who is the party that contracted with your company? I require their contact details.
2. What is the full legal identity of the landowner?


3. Since receiving your letters in have gone to the car park in question and it appears to be closed down and no signage etc in place, could you please advise what your relationship is with the landowner now the car park is out of use.


4. Whilst at the site I noticed there was no signage in place with any rules or regulations stated, can you prove there was any such signage in place on the date of the alleged offence? If so please provide a copy of the signs that you can evidence were on site and which you contend formed a contract with the driver on that occasion, as well as all photographs taken of this vehicle.
5. As you are not the landowner please provide a contemporaneous and unredacted copy of your contract with the landholder that demonstrate that you have their authority. Is this point relevant?
6. Is your charge based on damages for breach of contract? Answer yes or no.
7. If the charge is based on damages for breach of contract please provide your justification of this sum.
8. Is your charge based on a contractually agreed sum for the provision of parking? Answer yes or no.
9. If the charge is based on a contractually agreed sum for the provision of parking please provide a valid VAT invoice for this 'service'.

If you believe you have a cause of action, send a Letter before Claim within the next 21 days and I will take advice and will respond.

However, in my opinion, there is a better alternative than legal proceedings, namely that we utilise the services of a completely independent ADR service suited to parking charges. This does not include the IAS appeal service - which lacks any transparency and possibly any independence from the IPC - unlike the alternative offered by the British Parking Association, POPLA, which is transparent and has been shown to be independent.

Do not send debt collector letters and do not add any costs or surcharges. I will not respond to such contact and to involve another firm would be a failure to mitigate your costs which are not my liability because the POFA 2012 can only potentially hold a registered keeper liable if certain provisions have been met and even then, the 'amount of the parking charge' is the only amount pursuable.

Yours faithfully,
####### ########