Victim of fraud on Airbnb - Help needed

[Deleted User]

LordLee wrote: »

Once again... i realise this. I'm just trying to see if there is anything that can be salvaged from the situation. Aside from a lesson learnt.

Out of interest, why did you provide your E-Mail address to the scammer instead of continuing to converse using the Airbnb messaging system? Did the scammer offer a "discount" if you communicated directly?

[Deleted User]

dragonsoup wrote: »

Find the property on one of the big sites by all means but then go looking for it elsewhere - you'll save a fortune in booking fees for one thing but equally importantly a fraudster is much less likely to bother to create a social media presence (I get a lot of my bookings now via FaceBook) or pay for a dedicated website. This all takes time, money and commitment which shows the genuine owners.

I'm afraid I'm not convinced by what you say here. If you communicate with sellers via your own E-Mail address you are just as likely to be scammed as the OP of this thread. What protection do you have in these circumstances? The answer is none. You are reliant on the honesty of the Facebook users who (presumably) you don't know from Adam.

The solution is to use the "big sites" exactly as they meant to be used or forget all about online bookings and go about it the old fashioned way!

JReacher1

Moneyineptitude wrote: »

I'm afraid I'm not convinced by what you say here. If you communicate with sellers via your own E-Mail address you are just as likely to be scammed as the OP of this thread. What protection do you have in these circumstances? The answer is none. You are reliant on the honesty of the Facebook users who (presumably) you don't know from Adam.

The solution is to use the "big sites" exactly as they meant to be used or forget all about online bookings and go about it the old fashioned way!

Agreed, advising people to bypass the official procedure and make a private deal with someone is such a terrible idea that almost borders on stupidity!

dragonsoup

Moneyineptitude wrote: »

I'm afraid I'm not convinced by what you say here. If you communicate with sellers via your own E-Mail address you are just as likely to be scammed as the OP of this thread. What protection do you have in these circumstances? The answer is none. You are reliant on the honesty of the Facebook users who (presumably) you don't know from Adam.

The solution is to use the "big sites" exactly as they meant to be used or forget all about online bookings and go about it the old fashioned way!

The old fashioned way is great - the big sites care only for their own profitability and don't give a damn about the holidaymaker nor the owner. The much trumpeted "protection" gives a real false sense of security as in this case. If the OP hadn't assumed that he was dealing with the site he would probably have done a lot more research and been much more careful before parting with the money

It's pretty easy to tell. You'll find a couple of pictures of my property on the listing site. You'll find far more on my own site,
clearly of the same place but taken at different times of the year and at different angles. You'll also find me listed at the local tourist board office and the VisitWales website ( who have inspected and rated me).

A genuine owner will often have listings all over the place. Scammers rarely bother. The only commercial listing site that has ever asked me to prove I own the property is Independent Cottages which is quite frightening considering the number of people who have booked non existing accommodation through the big names and lost their holiday and often their money too.

Many owners now take CC payments which gives you far more real protection and you'll be saving 10% or so in booking fees.

[Deleted User]

dragonsoup wrote: »

A genuine owner will often have listings all over the place. Scammers rarely bother.

This is a broad generalisation and I certainly wouldn't rely on it as a means to identify honest owners.

Regardless, all of this is nothing to do with Consumer Rights and isn't going to get the OP his £647 back unfortunately.

As I said, the best advice is to use the sites as they are meant to be used to maintain protection from scammers.

dragonsoup wrote: »

If the OP hadn't assumed that he was dealing with the site he would probably have done a lot more research and been much more careful before parting with the money

The convenient omission here is how the scammer managed to obtain the OP's E-Mail address in the first place. If he had maintained contact through the Airbnb messaging system he would have remained fully protected.

unholyangel

I've had a look on the financial ombudsmans page and the majority of complaints about bank transfers are not upheld. The ones that are upheld tend to be where the bank haven't acted quickly enough or didn't even try to get the money back.

Making a mistake online is a bit different to being conned in the streets. Not saying online ones should get away with it, its just a lot harder to take action against someone who could be 2000 miles away in another country and subject to different laws.

If you know what bank the payment was sent to (think most online banking will tell you the bank its being sent to - at least 3 of mine do), perhaps contact them (after making a report to the police) advising them that the account is being used to commit crimes and receive the proceeds of crimes. Nothing would likely come of it unless their own police (if they're in another country too) contacted them, but you never know. They might just freeze the account for suspicious activity.

Really though, making a bank transfer is like handing over cash. Theres very little the bank can do to get the payment back.

[Deleted User]

unholyangel wrote: »

I've had a look on the financial ombudsmans page and the majority of complaints about bank transfers are not upheld.

I can't see any scenario where a bank would refund under the circumstances described in the OP.
The only complaint the OP seems to have is that someone at the Bank's call centre told them it was still possible to put a stop on the payment several hours after it was already processed. I doubt the Op can prove this was even actually said. Even so, this is not a complaint I could see resulting in a refund of the payment.

unholyangel

Moneyineptitude wrote: »

I can't see any scenario where a bank would refund under the circumstances described in the OP.
The only complaint the OP seems to have is that someone at the Bank's call centre told them it was still possible to put a stop on the payment several hours after it was already processed. I doubt the Op can prove this was even actually said. Even so, this is not a complaint I could see resulting in a refund of the payment.

According to a BBC article in 2012, of the 688 complaints they received, just less than half were found in the consumers favour.

The financial ombudsman say this about money transfers on their webpage found here:
http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/technical_notes/transfers-payments-and-cheques.htm

Sometimes we find that the problem was initially caused by something the consumer did wrong - for example, putting the wrong account number or bank code in the recipient details on the transfer request form.

In this case, we will look to see whether the financial business promptly took any reasonable steps open to it, to try to prevent or minimise loss to the consumer.

As I said, there have been ones found in the consumers favour - where the consumer was at fault for the initial error but the bank didn't take adequate steps/act quickly enough to try and recover the funds. Even in one case the bank told the customer it was unable to recover any funds but the ombudsman found they haven't even tried.

And given the ombudsman will cost the OP (or rather OP's friend) nothing, they've certainly nothing to lose by at least trying it.

naedanger

LordLee wrote: »

Thanks. Yes I have followed the useful advice and am waiting a response.

Another issue is my friend calling his bank within few hours to put a stop to the payment. They said they could recall it. But two weeks later the money has gone and they are not sure what to do.

Any legs in complaining here?


Just doing what I can to reduce damage.

You friend may be able to get a copy of their call with the bank from the bank themselves. Banks usually record calls so if your friend makes a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act then they will supply a copy (if they did record the call).

That said, I agree with the comment that even with proof of what was said the bank will probably not issue a refund.

If when your friend called it was actually too late for the bank to recover the money then the bank's error did not actually contribute to the loss and so they would not be liable. Whereas if they could have stopped the money at that time (which seems less likely) then the bank would be liable for the loss.

One suggestion is for your friend to get a copy of the recording and then press the bank for details of what the bank did to stop the transfer (in the hope the bank could have stopped the money when the problem was first reported by your friend). However I would not be hopeful.

[Deleted User]

LordLee wrote: »

my friend calling his bank WITHIN A FEW HOURS to put a stop to the payment. They said they could recall it. But two weeks later the money has gone

unholyangel wrote: »

there have been ones found in the consumers favour - where the consumer was at fault for the initial error but the bank didn't take adequate steps/act quickly enough to try and recover the funds.

Since a BACs transfer takes mere seconds, I would be very very surprised if the Bank are prepared to refund anything if the customer was only trying to stop the payment hours later. Even if the Bank were mistaken in telling the customer it could be stopped (very unlikely anyone would actually say this), that still doesn't mean the Bank are in any way liable for the amount lost.

I'm also bemused by the OP stating that " two weeks later" the money has been paid. The money was gone on the same day, why is the OP only checking a fortnight on?

If the OP does want to go as far as the Ombudsman, he first needs to make a formal complaint to the Bank. Only after the Bank have had eight weeks to consider and/or they have issued a full and final rejection of the complaint can the complaint be referred.