Delayed Flights -

Cardew

I had an interesting experience a couple of months ago. A flight from East Midlands had a 2 hour delay. This was on the departure screens and we were told it was due to the late arrival of incoming aircraft.

I only had carry on luggage so settled down to read, some other passengers left the airport to chat with relatives outside.

I could hardly hear the muffled announcements but suddenly noticed they were boarding at ‘my’ gate 30 minutes before the original scheduled departure time. They had apparently switched aircraft and the plane would be leaving on time.

After boarding there was a long delay as passengers were missing and not responding to the PA announcements to report to the Gate. They were in the process of off-loading their luggage when they arrived.

I was told that had I(with only carry-on luggage) not been at the gate, I would have been left behind.

It appears that regardless of any delay in departure announced by the airline, if you do not arrive in time for the original scheduled flight, you can forfeit your right to be carried by that airline.

WiseInvestor_2

You're quite correct that responsibility to check for updates rests with the traveller and departure screens are dotted throughout the airport to ease that process. Of course, hold baggage cannot be allowed to travel without it's owner (a security measure imposed following the Lockerbie investigation) and so must be offloaded if the passenger fails to board the aircraft. As searching through hundreds of bags can take some time, some airlines agree to accept late arrivals just to get the flight away. It's also true that 'hand baggage only' passengers would be left behind - why should a whole plane-load of people who did spot the change be inconvenienced by one or two individuals who didn't?

Nowadays, with the new EU delay regulations in force (with test cases yet to determine the fine detail), every minute can count so I wouldn't be at all surprised to see threats of hefty fines added to ticket conditions at some time in the future. Airlines (particularly the low costs) simply cannot afford to pay thousands in compensation because someone fell asleep in the bar!

Cardew

WiseInvestor wrote:

You're quite correct that responsibility to check for updates rests with the traveller and departure screens are dotted throughout the airport to ease that process. Of course, hold baggage cannot be allowed to travel without it's owner (a security measure imposed following the Lockerbie investigation) and so must be offloaded if the passenger fails to board the aircraft. As searching through hundreds of bags can take some time, some airlines agree to accept late arrivals just to get the flight away. It's also true that 'hand baggage only' passengers would be left behind - why should a whole plane-load of people who did spot the change be inconvenienced by one or two individuals who didn't?

Nowadays, with the new EU delay regulations in force (with test cases yet to determine the fine detail), every minute can count so I wouldn't be at all surprised to see threats of hefty fines added to ticket conditions at some time in the future. Airlines (particularly the low costs) simply cannot afford to pay thousands in compensation because someone fell asleep in the bar!

Wiseinvestor,
I think you have missed the point of my post.

I am well aware of the requirement to unloaded baggage - it came in before Lockerbie I believe. That was a loophole caused by the routing of the bag from Malta via Germany. Therefore I was not expressing surprise that the baggage was being unloaded.

Having been delayed several times by the ‘drunks in the bar’(or in one case some girl who couldn’t bear to be parted from her boyfriend) I am all for sanctions against them.

It is however rather unusual for flights with a posted delay of hours to suddenly be brought forward to the original schedule. In my case it is understandable if passengers,(having been told minutes earlier by airline staff that the 2 hour delay was unadvoidable), did not expect to find it leaving on time.

I was merely warning people that even being notified of a delay in a flight by the airline does not absolve them of the responsibility to arrive at the originally scheduled time. I travel to the USA a lot and get notified by email or phone by the airline if there is a known delay of over an hour. One might ask why they bother informing me.

If I were warned that a flight was delayed by many hours - as can happen - I would take my chance and turn up well late; and fight a battle later if I subsequently missed my flight.

WiseInvestor_2

Sorry - perhaps I wasn't clear.

I agree with everything you've said and confirm that you would've been left behind for not having checked in hold baggage, whilst searching for bags prevents the flight departing and often the doors remain open whilst further calls are made in the Terminal. I'd just hoped nobody would read this as a sure way to steal an extra few minutes on the ground!

My reference to the new EU legislation aimed to emphasise that airlines now have a much greater focus on reducing delays and that your scenario may indeed become commonplace. It may even prove cheaper for the airline to re-allocate an aircraft away from an ontime service to keep your delay below the applicable threshold and subsquently force them to wait for your late inbound aircraft in order to share the delay - all at short notice so expect little or no warning. So whilst the length of a delay encountered by each traveller should reduce the total number of people affected could rise dramatically

Keep an eye on those screens and don't assume everything you're told is accurate or uptodate

Lassie_2

Cardew,

I do not think it unusual for the flight to be brought forward after having posted a delay due to a late inbound aircraft.

It could be due to substituting another a/c as WiseInvestor suggested or it could be the a/c arrived off schedule (not a full 2 hours late) and would not make its runway slot on departure. For certain airspace, a new flight plan has to be filed if departure is expected to be more than STD+30 mins. A new slot may be given in 2 hours time; that slot may be improved / become unrestricted allowing the a/c to depart when ready.

Airline duty managers will usually do all possible to get checked in passengers onto a flight - we get no joy seeing distraught people offloaded. As for those passengers who arrive late for check in believing the flight to be delayed - the handling agent can be instructed to keep the flight open for a reasonable period as a courtesy.

It is, however, the passenger's responsibility to check in on time and to arrive at the gate in good time or they could be denied travel.

Cardew

Lassie,
I did say in my original post that they had switched aircraft.

I am in agreement with wiseinvestor and yourself so there is no dispute.

I raised the subject merely to raise awareness of the situation

GlennTheBaker

The only sure fire way of making certain you get the correct info is to just keep checking the screens every few mins. A good point raised, Cardew.

Cardew

GlennTheBaker wrote:

The only sure fire way of making certain you get the correct info is to just keep checking the screens every few mins. A good point raised, Cardew.

Glen,
The only trouble is that the screens are not always updated and some of the loadspeaker messages would do justice to the old British Rail station announcements:
Here is an earlier rant:

A rant about Flight Arrival/Departure notification.

You can supposedly find out up to date arrival and departure times by phone, on teletext or on the web. These timings are updated from the same data source as that displayed at the airport.

I assume the CAA is the agency in UK updates this data source, but whoever it is they need sacking!

I have lost count of the number of time I have arrived at the airport, after checking that the plane was on time, to find a lengthy delay on arrival or departure has just been announced.

My brother runs a Taxi firm near London and his drivers are forever arriving at airports to pick up passengers to find lengthy delays in arrival times have just been posted on the board.

Two personal examples:

I was to pick up my parents at Gatwick on a flight from Malta(a three and half hour flight) An hour before arrival time I phoned Gatwick and was told it was on time. At the airport a 2 hour delay was put on the board so I waited. At regular intervals the flight was delayed a further hour or so. I could not find out anything about delay. It eventually arrived 8 hours late. On a three and half hour flight, a two hour delay would mean the plane had been in the air for some while. It left 8 hours late.

Last year I was on an American Airlines Flight from Chicago to Manchester due to arrive early morning. My daughter was picking me up. A couple of hours before scheduled arrival she checked Teletext which announced the flight was cancelled! Phone calls to Manchester Airport and American Airlines in UK confirmed that cancellation.(presumably they were reading the same data). Knowing that I would have rung if the flight had been cancelled, she rang Chicago airport who confirmed that the flight had left on time. When she got to Manchester the arrivals board still had the flight as cancelled! I wonder how many people were not collected from the airport? You obviously could not blame a taxi driver for not turning up.