IMPORTANT: Please make sure your posts do not contain any personally identifiable information (both your own and that of others). When uploading images, please take care that you have redacted all personal information including number plates, reference numbers and QR codes (which may reveal vehicle information when scanned).
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!

Missed POPLA Appeal deadline

2

Comments

  • TDR500
    TDR500 Posts: 16 Forumite
    Thanks

    Quite staggering given the errors on the NtK (no PCN, wrong date of offence, 57 days after the alleged offence, incomplete address and no period of parking given on the initial NtK)

    Aim to get the letter emailed tomorrow. Copy to the cowboys?
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 150,773 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    I would not copy the offending 'company' into the complaint to the landowner and certainly not copied into your MP/Government complaint, which we need done in numbers this month while they are listening. Even if people just copy the BMPA template and attach their PCN and letters, it's another complaint in the pile.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • TDR500
    TDR500 Posts: 16 Forumite
    Dear fellow sufferers
    My draft letter (redacted) to the probable landowner, which I aim to email 1st thing on Monday - any helpful comments? I've kept it polite as I would like them onside. I haven't copied in the appeal below, in which I point out the specific omissions. Will upload excerpts tomorrow.
    Thanks for your support so far

    [FONT=&quot]Dear,[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]I am led to believe that your school has a contract with X for enforcing parking restrictions at Y. X have declined to identify the landowner or the nature of the arrangements so I have had to track you down using Google maps to confirm the location. If that is not the case then perhaps you could advise me who does have responsibility for such matters?[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]If you do, I am writing to you to express my concerns regarding the school’s parking policy and service provider and to request your assistance in resolving a dispute. [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]My children have been attending after school swimming classes at Y for a number of years now, without incident but earlier this summer I received a Parking Charge Notice to Keeper in the post. The notice, dated xx 2016 was in respect of an alleged parking infringement on x Road on xx 2016. Subsequent correspondence specified the address as # x Road and a time of xx, but this does not correspond with our visits.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]I have appealed to both X and the industry funded appeals body “POPLA”. The latter would not consider my appeal as I had missed the deadline, however I enclose my appeal as it sets out my reasons for not settling the charge. In summary though I believe that X’s records are factually incorrect and incomplete and that their correspondence does not meet the obligations set out in the legislation (Schedule 4 of the POFA Act 2012). Without this it is impossible to know the circumstances in which the vehicle was parked when the photographs were taken and to conclude that a £100 fine is reasonable. Also, X’s use of debt collection letters within the initial POPLA appeal window can only be interpreted as threatening behaviour.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Of course I recognise that the school needs to limit parking at the premises, which may not have always been enforced in the past. However, I would urge you to make this clearer to visitors by improving the signage inside and outside the building. It may be preferable to use the local authority’s contractor who at least issue tickets at the time, record the period of time, take time-stamped photographs which are made available online and have a truly independent appeals service. They don't always get it right but there is more clarity and they don't send misleading debt collection demands during the appeal period.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Thank you for your time, which I recognise would be better spent on your important work at the school. I hope that you can be of assistance in cancelling this claim by X. I will not enter into any further correspondence with X and their agents until the charge is either cancelled or I receive answers to the specific points raised in my letter. [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]I look forward to hearing from you.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Yours sincerely,[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Enclosure:[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]POPLA Appeal submission[/FONT]
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 150,773 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Have you located a private landowner then? Private school or state school?

    If the latter, then IMHO the site may well be owned by the local authority (unless it's a free school or owned by a Catholic diocese). If so, if the site is owned by the local authority, then this is 'not relevant land' under the POFA and the keeper cannot be held liable.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • TDR500
    TDR500 Posts: 16 Forumite
    It's a state school as far as I can tell so not sure why they aren't using the local council's cowboys. It's not a catholic school but is a special school. They host after school activities for the local community which is why the alleged offence date/time doesn't make sense.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 150,773 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    I work in a school somewhere in Sussex and IMHO a state school cannot actually introduce any regulations in their car parks unless the site is privately owned, such as a Free School or Religious School. A state school where the land is Council owned can't use contract law and would be unlikely to be included in any Parking Places Order (Council rules) either!

    Who have you found is the landowner of the site - a private firm or the Council?
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • TDR500
    TDR500 Posts: 16 Forumite
    Here are the key excerpts from my POPLA appeal:

    1. The PCN is factually incorrect as the vehicle was not on the relevant land on xx 2016. On that date I was at work elsewhere in x and the date does not match known visits for after school hours children’s swimming lessons, held on Tuesdays.
    2. No PCN was issued at the time: a) the vehicle was not there; b) the driver did not find a PCN from Y attached to the vehicle on this or any other occasion; c) the Notice to Keeper refers to it being issued under paragraph 9 of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 which is applicable where a PCN has not been issued, rather than paragraph 8; and d) the limited photographic evidence supplied shows no PCN attached to the vehicle.
    3. The Notice to Keeper issued on xx 2016 is not compliant with POFA 2012 and therefore invalid for the following reasons:
    Paragraph 9 (2) (a) states that the notice must specify “the relevant land on which it was parked” – it only states x Road and the post code which does not make it clear where the land is, given that x Road is a public highway and not a private road or estate.
    Paragraph 9 (2) (a) also states that the notice must specify and “the period of parking to which the notice relates” – only a date is provided with no reference to the period from/to. What was the “specified period of parking”?
    The driver contends that whenever the photographs were taken, the period would have been minimal, either escorting young children into, or collecting them from the school building on a different date, but Y have not provided this information, nor details of who the landowner is nor their contractual arrangements with them.
    Paragraph 9 (5) states that where a PCN is not issued at the time a Notice to Keeper must be issued within 14 days. The Notice was not issued until 57 days after the alleged and disputed date.
    4. I believe that the signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. The unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers before they park. This is evidenced by the driver not noticing them.
    5. In my initial appeal letter to Y I requested further information which has not been forthcoming. Specifically, about the identity of and their policy with the landowner or on site businesses, to cancel such a charge as required under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 and they have omitted clear information about the process for complaints including a geographical address of the landowner.
    The effect of all of these errors and omissions, whether deliberately or negligently, invalidates this PCN and Notice to Keeper under the legislation. I therefore request that this PCN be cancelled.
  • TDR500
    TDR500 Posts: 16 Forumite
    It's a Community Special School so not sure what difference that makes. I could invest another £3 and find out who the landowner is from the Land Registry or call the council or school tomorrow.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 150,773 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 16 October 2016 at 10:53PM
    TDR500 wrote: »
    It's a Community Special School so not sure what difference that makes. I could invest another £3 and find out who the landowner is from the Land Registry or call the council or school tomorrow.
    I'd try the phone call first, to the school, asking who contracted the parking firm and who to contact with a complaint. Stay on the line till they tell you...

    Your POPLA appeal is moot, because you are too late to submit it. But useful as a basis for a defence if you should need it.

    You might get a Letter of claim or court papers from Gladstones in the end but they are defendable. As I stated to a poster just now, I can't recall a forum-defended Gladstones claim which actually proceeded to a hearing, this year. We've helped with bespoke defences in a number of cases but none have actually gone to a hearing AFAIK, and certainly some have been discontinued over the Summer as I remember posters confirming as much.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • TDR500
    TDR500 Posts: 16 Forumite
    From reviewing the .Gov website Community Schools are the local authority schools so still thinking this is owned by the local council.
This discussion has been closed.
Meet your Ambassadors

🚀 Getting Started

Hi new member!

Our Getting Started Guide will help you get the most out of the Forum

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 350.6K Banking & Borrowing
  • 253K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 453.4K Spending & Discounts
  • 243.6K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 598.3K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 176.7K Life & Family
  • 256.8K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 16.1K Discuss & Feedback
  • 37.6K Read-Only Boards

Is this how you want to be seen?

We see you are using a default avatar. It takes only a few seconds to pick a picture.