Unauthorised day off = gross misconduct :-(

Undervalued

ScorpiondeRooftrouser wrote: »

And everybody has a right to take a day off work whenever they feel like.

Er no. The complete opposite actually!

The law is very clear. A full time employee has a right to at least 28 days holiday per year but the employer can (with very few limits) dictate when they can and cannot take it.

The only legal right to unpaid leave is "short periods" for family emergencies or other dependants and for certain civic duties.

penguingirl

Love this thread- I work in a hospital- do you think I can just take some days off as unpaid leave? Even if my boss says no? It's not like it would have any impact on my patients or colleagues...

In fact we could have a much more laid back attitude to work- bus drivers, paramedics, teachers, binmen, firefighters, airline pilots, shop assistants, footballers... could all just take off unpaid time whenever they feel like. That would work wouldn't it?

silvercar

I'm surprised a first time offence of one day leads to a charge of gross misconduct. I could understand a warning, but gross misconduct seems over the top.

Savvy_Sue

If only it were a first offence ...

It's not. The OP says he has done this before, and got away with it being put down as unpaid leave.

bouicca21

As I see it, Eid is predictable so the appropriate two days should have been booked well in advance.

We do not know the type of business or work force so cannot know whether there was a high demand for those days which would have been difficult for the employer to manage sympathetically, or the impact on the business of unauthorised absence. In some sectors it may be no more than an irritation, in others it could be a disaster.

And OP has clearly done it before. I wonder how often and if there has been a prior warning?

JustAnotherSaver

1) Who cares if they've posted elsewhere? Many of us do. If they choose to take bad advice only then let them be.

2) This religious holiday thing is a load of nonsense to me. I read a response on that other forum saying they cannot be discriminated against on religious grounds.

So is that person saying that not allowing them time off is discrimination?

How about if i want some time off for some Christian events. I wonder if people would expect my employer to bend over backwards then, or does that only happen when you're a Muslim because it's fine to say no to a Christian but if you say no to a Muslim then you're racist??

3) I know we're playing the what if game, but 'what if' the OP had just phoned in sick? Gone self sick for a week, maybe 2, got a docs note, as bogus as it may be, but they kept the company informed throughout of their sickness.
Would they still possibly face a gross misconduct?

RichardD1970

JustAnotherSaver wrote: »

3) I know we're playing the what if game, but 'what if' the OP had just phoned in sick? Gone self sick for a week, maybe 2, got a docs note, as bogus as it may be, but they kept the company informed throughout of their sickness.
Would they still possibly face a gross misconduct?

Don't know, but possibly.

I do know that at my work one of the questions on the back-to-work interview form for the manager to fill out is, (to paraphrase) "Has the employee previously asked for any of the days concerned off as leave."

Don't know what the outcome of answering yes would be, but the question is there for a reason.

sangie595

RichardD1970 wrote: »

Don't know, but possibly.

I do know that at my work one of the questions on the back-to-work interview form for the manager to fill out is, (to paraphrase) "Has the employee previously asked for any of the days concerned off as leave."

Don't know what the outcome of answering yes would be, but the question is there for a reason.

Wow, that's a new one on me! And that didn't happen very often. But I can see this taking off as an idea that catches on.

Mind you, some people are just plain thick. I recall, many years ago, having an employee transferred to me because his manager couldn't cope with him any more. He was one of those who given an inch, takes a mile sort. And his manager, well he was great as a manager when it was a two way process, but useless at carry through on problem staff. I had a reputation in the workplace of turning around problem staff and getting them back on track.

Within a short period with me he was banned from personal calls on work phones and during working time, and on a performance plan. His whereabouts were also being monitored ( he was a field worker, and had a habit of going home and staying there instead of working). I'll admit, even I was struggling, because no matter what I said it didn't sink in, and we'd already started on formal warnings (I had never, ever, got that far with a single previous problem worker).

Anyhow, every year he took a four week period of leave. Now we had very generous holiday entitlements, but he didn't want to use most of it up on this, so he would book two weeks paid and two weeks unpaid. And every year, without exception, he would suddenly become ill for the final two weeks and have a sick note from a doctor in another country. And would get sick pay which was paid at the full rate. So, when it came time for him to ask me for his two weeks paid and two weeks unpaid leave, I sat him down, explained the unfortunate and convenient pattern that had emerged, and told him, very clearly, that if this happened again then I would not accept his sick note and would consider it gross misconduct. I followed that up in writing, explaining the consequences of his doing this again would be that he would face dismissal.

What did he do? Yep. At the beginning of the third week he phoned in sick and produced a sick note! Four weeks later he was dismissed for gross misconduct. It always bothered me because his was only one of three cases over all my career where I had to dismiss and couldn't turn someone around. And in both the other cases they were dismissals for fraud ( one for theft, one for falsifying their CV) so there was nothing I could have done to prevent these. But I have always wondered whether there was something I missed with him. Probably not, but it still niggles!

JustAnotherSaver

The reason i asked the previous question was because at one point during my employment, i asked for a day off. Not a week or a few days (i know the length of time is irrelevant) but just a single day off.

It wasn't during any particular busy time in the working calendar (i know this doesn't matter either, i'm just saying, so take it for what it is. Yes i know i'm being defensive here but past experience tells me the replies i'd get to what i just said, so that's why i put it in there )

ANYWAY

So i gave 6 months notice for this 1 day (again, i know that's irrelevant, i'm just saying).

I was told that because i was only booking 1 day, i was stopping someone taking 1 week (even though i had this 1 particular day each & every year for the previous 15-20 years & everyone in my department knew not to book time on that week, the same way i knew not to book time on the specific weeks they had in the year).

So i was told that if nearer the time nobody else had booked it off then i could have it.

When we got in to that month (the requirement was 1 months notice for 1 week, so technically nobody could book that week any longer), i asked.

And i asked.

And i asked.

And i asked.

I kept getting told they'll let me know nearer the time.

Then word came that it was likely i wouldn't be allowed it because the weather was due to be nice (outside work).

Then a week before the day i wanted, i had quite a bad muscle tear in my leg which made it very difficult to walk on. I did this at work. I genuinely was unable to carry out any duties due to the nature of my job.

A doctor signed me off work for a few weeks.


Now i know some in the company thought i was putting this on. Acting it out.
Some lower down the food chain even said it to my face, so if they were saying it, i know those higher up were thinking it.


Thankfully i never got accused over it, but i always wondered, even now, if they could've & could it have gone anywhere & whether i could've won any appeal etc.