Unauthorised day off = gross misconduct :-(

whowants2brich

Undervalued wrote: »

Well you may "expect" it but there is no law that requires them to do so.

It is actually the other way round, they must not discriminate against them because of their religious beliefs. However I see no suggestion here that is happening. With very few limits an employer can dictate when an employee can take their holiday. If they were showing far more flexibility to followers of one religion then those of other faiths (or no faith) may have claim.

I'm religious, though not Muslim. I have always booked religious festivals off work, in advance, using my holiday leave entitlement, and always booked them far in advance to ensure that nobody else wants them off.

On a side note, positive discrimination is just as dangerous for employers. If anyone can see that a specific religious group (whatever religion) is getting preferential treatment, then those with a religion (or no religion) could quite rightly contemplate complaining. To automatically give employees UK public holidays is one thing, but for a company to be run by Muslims/Hindus/Jews, and choose to work Sunday-Thursday, or have a vegetarian canteen, or have all religious days off (and to work on Christian holidays) is the choice of the employer.

Employees can work there and accept and follow company policy... as long as it is clearly documented and each employee knows what to do and what not to do... or they can find a different employer.

Undervalued

whowants2brich wrote: »

I'm religious, though not Muslim. I have always booked religious festivals off work, in advance, using my holiday leave entitlement, and always booked them far in advance to ensure that nobody else wants them off.

Which is fine if you have an employer that lets you book holiday when you choose. However some employers dictate when an employee can take their holiday and, with very few limits, that is perfectly lawful.

TBagpuss

bod1467 wrote: »

Holy day for the Muslim religion is a Friday ... do these people take off every Friday and work every Sunday instead?




Thought not. So why should they get special privileges for the festival of Eid?

It isn't a special privilege. Rather the opposite. In this country, those who are Christian are privileged in that major religious (and social) holidays align with Bank Holidays and weekends - so many jobs mean that people automatically get Sundays, Easter etc off, and don't have to book time off or ask for special consideration.

OP mentioned that the time was for a religious festival here, but it isn't clear whether they told their employer that that is why they wanted the time off.

Takeaway_Addict

This is a massive breakdown in trust from the employers point of view, the employee was asked twice, refused twice and still stole the time.

GM is completely acceptable IMV and the employer should have no issues in defending their course of action.

But of course just my view.

ScorpiondeRooftrouser

Takeaway_Addict wrote: »

This is a massive breakdown in trust from the employers point of view, the employee was asked twice, refused twice and still stole the time.

GM is completely acceptable IMV and the employer should have no issues in defending their course of action.

But of course just my view.

"Stole the time" is not a valid way of viewing it. They announced they were not coming in and didn't expect to be paid for it. This is disruptive and annoying to the employer and might merit disciplinary action on those grounds, but what they have done is declined to sell the employer their services on a particular day, not 'stolen' anything.

agrinnall

ScorpiondeRooftrouser wrote: »

"Stole the time" is not a valid way of viewing it. They announced they were not coming in and didn't expect to be paid for it. This is disruptive and annoying to the employer and might merit disciplinary action on those grounds, but what they have done is declined to sell the employer their services on a particular day, not 'stolen' anything.

Ridiculous, nobody has a right to unpaid leave unless it is in their contract, as far as the employer is concerned they have to pay the employee for a day in which they took unauthorised absence. It's clear GM and I would sack. The fact that the employee can't see why it's an issue just makes it worse.

ScorpiondeRooftrouser

agrinnall wrote: »

Ridiculous, nobody has a right to unpaid leave unless it is in their contract, as far as the employer is concerned they have to pay the employee for a day in which they took unauthorised absence. It's clear GM and I would sack. The fact that the employee can't see why it's an issue just makes it worse.

You missed the fact that they said they have previously taken days off unpaid then.

I don't disagree that it's gross misconduct, but taking an unpaid day off is not "stealing" from anybody. And everybody has a right to take a day off work whenever they feel like. You just can't expect to get paid for it, and can't expect not to get fired. That however has nothing to do with theft, and everything to do with contractual employment.

Detroit

ScorpiondeRooftrouser wrote: »

"Stole the time" is not a valid way of viewing it. They announced they were not coming in and didn't expect to be paid for it. This is disruptive and annoying to the employer and might merit disciplinary action on those grounds, but what they have done is declined to sell the employer their services on a particular day, not 'stolen' anything.

OP is not a self employed person who contracts to sell their time on a day to day basis.
They presumably have a permanent, or fixed term contract to work for the employer every day, and as such, enjoy benefits such as paid leave, some job security, sick pay and so on, which they would not have as a person who can choose whether to sell a day of their time or not.

OP has breached their contract. The sanction for this could well be dismissal.

The only factor that may give a case to challenge would be the claim that the OP has done it before without issue.
In the, admittedly unlikely, event the OP could show that unauthorised absence is accepted by custom and practice, or that it has been tolerated in others and the OP is being unfairly treated, they may have a case to challenge a sanction.

Undervalued

ScorpiondeRooftrouser wrote: »

You missed the fact that they said they have previously taken days off unpaid then.

I don't disagree that it's gross misconduct, but taking an unpaid day off is not "stealing" from anybody. And everybody has a right to take a day off work whenever they feel like. You just can't expect to get paid for it, and can't expect not to get fired. That however has nothing to do with theft, and everything to do with contractual employment.

Yes it is!

A company only employs people because it is cost effective to do so. Directly or indirectly they make a "profit" out of that person's time. If that person does not adhere to their contract and fails to turn up the company loses whatever advantage it would have gained out of employing them.

The is the same reason why a company can (although fairly unusual) recover any unavoidable losses they suffer if an employee fails to work their contracted notice.

agrinnall

ScorpiondeRooftrouser wrote: »

You missed the fact that they said they have previously taken days off unpaid then.

I don't disagree that it's gross misconduct, but taking an unpaid day off is not "stealing" from anybody. And everybody has a right to take a day off work whenever they feel like. You just can't expect to get paid for it, and can't expect not to get fired. That however has nothing to do with theft, and everything to do with contractual employment.

You have a very odd view of the employer - employee relationship if you think this is correct.