'Grace Periods' when car park rule is 'Do not leave site'

AliceMS88

glentoran99 wrote: »

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1asv8a6q5aqfkwg/13839690_10153835782419227_708317690_o.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gr1ixegnvtg1asb/13833285_10153835782194227_20249268_o.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pb8jqs88hv6wza9/13728455_10153835782244227_917045281_o.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ks8aiiqo5953ou3/13702315_10153830367534227_744142892_o.jpg?dl=0


can see them if you follow the links

thank you

AliceMS88

Just a quick thought - should I make reference to ZZPS as well as APEX?

Coupon-mad

AliceMS88 wrote: »

Damn....I knew it...it just seems annoying!!!

More than annoying...considered by many to be a totally ridiculous decision by the Supreme Court.

The Consumers' Association were horrified and ordinary UK drivers were frankly clobbered by this decision, which still makes no real sense when you read it. Somehow they twisted the law on penalties to match the business model:

''See those goalposts...let's move them to allow more penalties to get through, never mind the Consumer Rights Act and unfair terms and all sorts of consumer protection rules...nope, this one is different. How dare shoppers overstay when they are held up by the shop itself...''

AliceMS88

Coupon-mad wrote: »

More than annoying...considered by many to be a totally ridiculous decision by the Supreme Court.

The Consumers' Association were horrified and ordinary UK drivers were frankly clobbered by this decision, which still makes no real sense when you read it. Somehow they twisted the law on penalties to match the business model:

''See those goalposts...let's move them to allow more penalties to get through, never mind the Consumer Rights Act and unfair terms and all sorts of consumer protection rules...nope, this one is different.''

Pretty disgusting really

Do you have any thoughts on my appeal? (if you have had chance to read it yet...it's quite long!!)

AliceMS88

Forgot the photo showing the empty fields on the ticket -

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2rlv8h2lbxbprpr/13730691_10153824669219227_765987030_o.jpg?dl=0

Coupon-mad

That's not long, I write 12 page POPLA appeals! War & Peace versions.

We'll take a look.

Coupon-mad

Did you admit to leaving the site in your appeal, sounds like you did. Another toe was shot off your foot if so, because you could have argued 'no evidence of the driver leaving the site'. Can't say that now if your first appeal twittered away about what you did and why (sorry!).

Did you park by the Burger King Building on the left? If so, then your appeal needs to make this clear:

It was only after getting an unexpected PCN that the driver noticed there were a few signs in the far corner of the car park. I was an occupant of the vehicle and I am the registered keeper but the driver has not been identified. The driver had not been given a fair chance to read those terms and had not been near enough to see those signs. There was nothing at the entrance of the car park apart from a tiny sign if you had turned immediately right when entering it - the driver didn't as the car carried on and turned down another row of bays.

I think you should add 7.3 of the BPA CoP to your first point (see other recent POPLA appeals, they all do) and I think you should add in 'no keeper liability' and keep your fingers crossed that POPLA agree that, in saying 'I found the door of Burger King shut so I went to the Bank' that this hasn't actually been an admission of you driving/parking the car.

So grab 'no keeper liability' from another UKPC example where they never sent a NTK at all (as in your case). I suggest UKPC POPLA appeals for you to crib from as this is very similar to theirs and you need the long wording about not serving any NTK at all and how Henry Greenslade of 'old POPLA' fame confirmed that keepers can't be held liable unless Schedule 4 has been complied with (i.e. NTK has to follow).

I think you are pushing it a bit to argue no keeper liability but why not?!

AliceMS88

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Did you admit to leaving the site in your appeal, sounds like you did. Another toe was shot off your foot if so, because you could have argued 'no evidence of the driver leaving the site'. Can't say that now if your first appeal twittered away about what you did and why (sorry!).

Did you park by the Burger King Building on the left? If so, then your appeal needs to make this clear:



I think you should add 7.3 of the BPA CoP to your first point (see other recent POPLA appeals, they all do) and I think you should add in 'no keeper liability' and keep your fingers crossed that POPLA agree that, in saying 'I found the door of Burger King shut so I went to the Bank' that this hasn't actually been an admission of you driving/parking the car.

So grab 'no keeper liability' from another UKPC example where they never sent a NTK at all (as in your case). I suggest UKPC POPLA appeals for you to crib from as this is very similar to theirs and you need the long wording about not serving any NTK at all and how Henry Greenslade of 'old POPLA' fame confirmed that keepers can't be held liable unless Schedule 4 has been complied with (i.e. NTK has to follow).

I think you are pushing it a bit to argue no keeper liability but why not?!

Unfortunately in my naivety...I appealed without doing research - I thought the truth would prevail....that is a lesson learned!!

We entered the carpark with the BK on the left hand side and parked on the 2nd row...I've added some comments to this photo to show where we parked - https://www.dropbox.com/s/1asv8a6q5aqfkwg/13839690_10153835782419227_708317690_o.jpg?dl=0

I shall add in section 7.3 as per your suggestion, thank you.

This is my original appeal to APEX, I am not sure if I have really put my foot it in and made it look like I was the driver - I also did this before I read about the Beavis saga so appreciate that it is a very weak appeal 1st off:
In my case, the £100 (£60 within 14 days) charge you are asking for far exceeds the cost to the landowner of Burger King UK as they were not open for trade at the time when the parking ticket was issued. I had clearly tried to enter the premises at 08:40 to find it was closed, I went to the bank and returned before the restaurant was open to find that the ticket had been issued at 08:42. I have not caused Burger King to lose any profits so I therefore feel the charge you have asked for is excessive.

I also included the point about the ticket not being completed but they didn't offer any response to that!

I am also a bit worried that I have appealed too fast as the ticket was only given 13 days ago so even if they were going to send a NTK...the deadline hasn't passed yet so not sure if that would affect my appeal to POPLA.

AliceMS88

POPLA appeal submitted...fingers crossed!

Although I didn't receive a password to track my appeal so I gave them a call...they apologised and said that hotmail.com address can't be accepted (they are trying to get something on their website to say that) so I have had to direct them to an old email address of mine! Just a heads up for anyone else

AliceMS88

Still nothing so far....nothing has been submitted by the operator.