Parking ticket upside down PEA - Popla Appeal

ziran

@fisherjim You are right.. It is indeed obscured . In their eagerness to enlarge and create a feeling of immediacy and fear of increase in fine value they seemed to have obscure some of the wordings around it. Is there any law that the complete signage should be visible at all times or can they argue that the one applicable in my case is visible. Anyway I would add this point too.

Coupon-mad

No, there is no such 'law'; these firms make it up as they go along and will suggest that sign formed a contract. The only thing they can be held to on signage is the Code of Practice of their Trade Body, in this case the BPA.

PEA are not often (if ever!) seen in car parks out of NI and are not AT ALL likely to sue even if you lose. Partly because they are based in Belfast so would not want to pop over to London just for their first ever claim:

http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/Parking_and_Enforcement_Agency.html

BMPA insight says, no court hearings...! And 1500 is a TINY amount of tickets issued in half a year - almost a collector's item you have there! Absolute small-fry, nothing to worry about.

I would submit some comments about the signs being unreadable/terms obscured and there was no sign near the car (if true) and no terms next to the P&D machine except a tariff list (if it is true that the £100 wasn't communicated as a risk, at the machine itself).

And point out any missing evidence, such as, did they prove a PCN was placed on the windscreen, with photo evidence? ...And did they prove from close-up photos that the ticket was upside down? And did they manage to produce a photo showing the car and a sign in the same picture? And did they produce a site map or aerial photo showing all bays and areas of the car park was signed? If not, those are the things to point out as well as the sign being altered.

Just bung something in before the comments window shuts after SIX days (despite what they say, it isn't seven)!

ziran

@CouponMad .. OMG Maybe it is too late ... !! ... .wrt

Just bung something in before the comments window shuts after SIX days (despite what they say, it isn't seven)!

Today was the seventh day and around 17:00 hrs I submitted .. (The comments section was enabled. However I got an application error. and could not access anymore). Thought of calling them but they are closed after 17:00 . Sent them a mail.

Need to chase them up.

Coupon-mad

Email it then, we do this a lot but you will have to say to POPLA:

'Please note these are NOT appeal points. These are my comments on the evidence and lack of evidence, because your Portal gave me an application error yesterday when I tried to submit these under the comments box. Please confirm receipt of my comments on the evidence and that the Assessor will read them and consider my comments on the evidence/lack of evidence, before making a decision.'

Put the 10 digit code in the subject line of course, plus your name and address under your message so they are clear you are the appellant and which case it relates to.

Coupon-mad

Shame you didn't come here earlier and use a forum example appeal which questioned 'landowner authority' because this person just beat them easily at POPLA when they failed to produce a landowner contract:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=105601

You can't add that now in comments, unfortunately, if you didn't have it in your POPLA appeal. But it goes to show how useless this little PPC are, nothing to worry about.

ziran

@Coupon-mad Thanks for the email template , I have emailed the same with the points mentioned. Appreciate the encouragement.

ziran

These were my comments on the evidence provided by the operator

Hello,
Just to Confirm :

Please note these are NOT appeal points. These are my comments on the evidence and lack of evidence, because your Portal gave me an application error when I tried to submit these under the comments box. Please confirm receipt of my comments on the evidence and that the Assessor will read them and consider my comments on the evidence/lack of evidence, before making a decision.

The operator states :
"As per the numerous contractual warning signs displayed throughout the site (Evidence marked , motorists are advised thata Parking Charge Notice (“PCN”) will be payable for not adhering to the T&Cs of this site.

My comments on the same :
The wording is unreadable/terms obscured/altered in the signage. provided as evidence . I don't see how it could be compliant. Also there was no sign near the car and no terms next to the P&D machine except a tariff list
Also there isn't a site map or aerial photo showing all bays and areas of the car park was signed.

The operator also states :
"as the serial number on the reverse of the ticket could be made unreadable by any number of factors including the opacity of the motorist‟s windscreen the validity of the ticket is not confirmed by this number, we would therefore ask the Appellant‟s claim in this regard to be considered immaterial".


My comments on the same :
If the above makes the ticket invalid, all tickets in all vehicles which ever way round must be considered invalid!

ziran

Popla have come back and its an "unscuccessfull one ". But more than that I am surprised that some of their comments are robotic and inaccurate but that inaccuracy is covered/protected by some overarching mumbo-jumbo section x.x. blah blah.

There is no mention about the operators evidence and my comments for the same .

I have provided my comments inline

DecisionUnsuccessful
Assessor Name: XXXX
Assessor summary of operator case
The operator’s case is that the appellant’s vehicle was parked on site without clearly displaying a valid ticket.

Assessor summary of your case
The appellant’s case is that he paid for a ticket and displayed this within his vehicle, then exited the car park prior to the contract expiring.

Assessor supporting rational for decision
The operator has provided photographic evidence of the signage displayed on site. The signs state “Authorised parking only. … A Parking Charge Notice may be issued in any of the following circumstances: Not displaying a valid permit/ticket clearly on the dashboard”. Section 18.3 of the British Parking Association (BPA) Code of Practice informs parking operators that signs must be “easy to see, read and understand”. After reviewing the evidence of the signs, I am satisfied that these meet the minimum requirements set out by the BPA Code of Practice. The operator has provided photographic evidence of the appellant’s vehicle from the date of the contravention, where
it is clear that there is no ticket displayed. I note there is a small white piece of paper displayed, however I cannot determine whether or not this is a valid ticket. I note the appellant’s comments that he did pay for a ticket on the date in question, however I have not been provided with any evidence to confirm this.

[Ziran] I had provided front and back scanned copy of the parking ticket . Not sure how they can say no evidence. Also below sentence conveniently covers up that fact

Regardless of whether or not a ticket was bought, the signage states that in order to comply with the terms and conditions of the car park, the ticket must be clearly displayed, which the appellant failed to do. Ultimately, it is the responsibility of the motorist to ensure that when they enter a car park, they have understood the terms and conditions of parking. If the appellant was in disagreement with the terms and conditions of the site, there would have been sufficient time to leave the site without entering into a contract with the operator. By remaining parked on site, the appellant accepted the terms and conditions. On this occasion, the appellant has failed to follow the terms and conditions of the signage at the site and as such, I conclude that the operator issued the Parking Charge Notice correctly.

bod1467

http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/Parking_and_Enforcement_Agency.html

That's how many court cases they've brought. Just ignore (file and forget) any debt collector garbage ... come back IF you get a Letter Before Claim or actual court papers.

Are you in Northern Ireland? (The BMPA info seems to suggest P&EA only operate there). If yes then you would have been best to have simply ignored this all from the outset.

nigelbb

bod1467 wrote: »

Are you in Northern Ireland? (The BMPA info seems to suggest P&EA only operate there). If yes then you would have been best to have simply ignored this all from the outset.

There is no access to POPLA for motorists in Northern Ireland so I think that the answer would be 'No'.