'Mental Health and Debt: New guide to come' blog discussion

xxxxpurpsxxxx

Tonnes and Tonnes of thanks for your proposed guide on dealing with deabt with MH problems.

My finances have been screwed up from day one but more so since my latest bout of severe depression. seeing as i am having one of my rare "good" days i rummaged thru ALL of my paperwork and have found a good stock of debt related letters (the "we want money" ones) these are now in a designated folder next to my desk so i can tackle them as and when i feel emotionally up to it (tears ruin the reading)

I eagerly await the arrival of your guide (moment of slight excitement) and could I ask that once its available you use a large, distinct link in you newsletter please as I really dont want to miss it.

I have found it difficult to get on top of my debts as of late as I have rather long periods of not being able to directly talk to people (asking for help, on telephone to people who i have debts with, etc)

Different people have different MH issues...all creating their own problems.
I'ts a shame that the majority of companies which people have debt with don't understand the effects of demands on us with MH problems, Although i do understand that they are owed money and entitled to ask for it.

again....many thanks xxx

May i also congratulate Dawn on overcoming a number of problems in her life, despite your recent downs i hope you are very pleased with what you have accomplished in the past xxx

Errata

tulketh wrote: »

I agree it wont be easy to implement any restrictions on loans to people with MH difficulties I think the support is needed to get them out of difficulties more easily than try to prevent the debt other than by education certainly not legislation

This is a very important point. Once people are treated as 'other' because of a shared characteristic the slope becomes very slippery indeed.
Examples from the past demonstrate why it's wrong: women being unable to obtain mortgages in their own name because they were women, and apartheid in South Africa.

Accessible help and information on managing finances and financial difficulties will benefit everyone, as will responsible lending.

columb0

Martin

First of all, thank you for raising this very important issue. As you will have already gathered from the response on this forum, your forthcoming guide will be warmly welcomed by many people.

The term 'mental health' still carries with it a massive amount of stigma. You are entering a minefield of misinformation, media hype, discrimination and emotive subjective opinion. However, I can see that you are already aware of the complexity of the issue and I applaud you for it.

I suffer from one of the less understood conditions, yet possibly one of the most relevant for your guide: Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD), a term which may conjure up images of naughty children who won't sit still. Many people mistakenly think of it as a childhood disorder which makes children hyperactive. However, I was diagnosed at the age of 28, and despite the name, hyperactivity is not always a symptom.

ADHD is misrepresented in the media more than almost any other health condition. As a result, adults (and children) with ADHD experience a huge amount of misunderstanding and prejudice, even from those in the medical profession which has been typically slow to catch up with the latest medical advances in understanding and treating this condition.

One of the biggest and least appreciated problems for adult sufferers often revolves around organisation, time management and financial planning, due to the primary symptoms of inattentiveness and impulsiveness. Before I was aware of having ADHD, I would impulsively get into debt and find myself losing track of payments because of my lack of attentiveness to my finances and extreme difficulties focussing on mundane tasks. Many people told me to "just pay attention more" and to "stop being impulsive", but it was like my brain was foggy a lot of the time, and the harder I tried to concentrate on mundane things like paying bills, the foggier my mind became.

Knowing I had ADHD changed my life completely and enabled me to get my life in order and out of debt. It not only helped me to recognise why I had problems in the past, but also gave me new approaches to my finances for the future. I also take medication which reduces my tendency to be impulsive and inattentive.

ADHD is not an excuse for bad behaviour, but can explain why a person may run into severe difficulties. Knowing about it can inform the person as to the best way of confronting and overcoming their problem. ADHD (or ADD) is a treatable condition, caused by differences in the human brain. Medication and a few ADHD-specific lifestyles changes are usually all it takes for someone with ADHD to stay out of trouble.

I believe that people with mental health conditions like this one SHOULD be protected from unrealistic borrowing, but not through making it harder for them to borrow, which will result in further marginalising an already marginalised sector of society. Instead, there is a crying need to raise public awareness of these conditions which would enable better diagnosis, access to proper treatment and lifestyle habits appropriate to each condition.

I do hope you include a bit about ADHD in your guide, because financial difficulties are a particular problem for adult sufferers. I also hope you get to speak to an ADHD expert (like Dr Philip Asherson of Kings College, London). They will explain why it is a huge issue, not just for those with ADHD, but for society in general because of the fact ADHD is relatively common, but often undiagnosed in adults.

The question is, which should you tackle first? The ignorance about debt among people with mental health conditions, or the ignorance about mental health conditions among the general public (and the media)? Personally, I think it is the latter and then first one will sort itself out.

Tiff_2

MSE_Lawrence wrote: »

This is the discussion to link on the back of Martin's 'Mental Health and Debt: New guide to come' blog. Please read the blog first, and then click reply to discuss.

Read Martin's 'Mental Health and Debt: New guide to come' Blog

Hi :money: Lawrence and Martin,

Thank you!

The thanks I sincerely send, come from a corner of the MSE world which I inhabit, and that you have so kindly allowed, called the Depression Support Thread under the guidance of the Health and Beauty MSE board.

Regardless of the thread's Depression title, it attracts many people with all types of mental ill health, not just depression. There are many regular MSE posters there and even more 'lurkers' who all benefit from the experiences and suggestions that are posted. We even have carers posting there, as I'm sure you know.

The 1-in-4 Club as I like to call it, is now sadly, in reality, more like the 1-in-3 Club.

From personal experience, I can say that if you have any mental ill health issue, it affects every part of your life. It's common that people may find that they aren't able to work, debt rapidly ensues and their mental ill health is worsened. It can be a very vicious circle.
The more that mental health issues are discussed and provided for, the better. The stigma will lessen and people will feel more comfortable asking for help with housing and finances. The more help they get in this direction, the less stressed someone will be and their chances of a relapse are lessened also.

I have gained broad experience of a lot of mental health issues and the problems they incur, including the financial ones. Loan sharks and doorstep lenders are particularly keen to lend at extortionate rates of interest and often, people with mental ill health may not have the insight they need to make a balanced judgement.

Due to my own years of personal experience and through researching to help others with similar problems, I have also been lucky enough to find a haven of resources that are available to help people manage their lives. MIND and CAB are very much old faithfuls. In addition, they provide links to other organizations that provide further information.
Others to approach include Rethink, SANE, The Independant Living Alternatives, The Mental Health Foundation, Disability Alliance, Directgov.co.uk, Carer's UK, The Association of Theraputic Communities and many more.

One amazing resource that is available to anyone with any mental ill health, is your local Mental Health Advocate. They are not lawyers, but are there to advise people of how and where to get help and advice for the practical issues, including financial issues, as well as their rights. They will even work with people who are still in hospital to try and make sure that all the safeguards available are in place for their return home. This is all completely free to anyone with mental health issues.

There are also Housing Associations (eg.fch) who not only provide the practical help of day to day life and finances, but also provide housing for some people too. They have support workers who can go to people's own homes and help them with making a budget.

Many people with mental ill health are unaware that they can qualify as being disabled and can claim DLA based purely and solely on the severity, or effects, of their mental health alone.

The sad fact is that unless someone asks, they will be unaware of any financial or practical help they can get. You only tend to trip over it after going through a mental health crisis and not before it gets to that point.
Even then, it can be an arduous task.

Our ill health is not something that can be seen.
It can affect our thought processes, our ability and stamina to be able to deal with the usually intricate and varied financial processes, and it can also hinder our insight in being able to find the help for ourselves.

Mental ill health does not mean that people lose their intelligence. But it can mean that sometimes, we have so much to deal with due to our mental ill health, that we find it extremely hard to manage our affairs as well as we might.

Debt itself can be a major cause, or a symptom, or a consquence, of mental ill health. It's very common for the them to go hand-in-hand or to aggravate each other.
To have such a resource available for people and/or their carers to consult in one place, would be a fantastic benefit to us all.

Thank you for addressing a subject that is usually ignored or deemed as being taboo. This is also a cause dear to my heart. For someone with mental ill health, debt and lack of benefits can make a hard situation a whole lot worse.

My sincere apologies for the length of these Tiff musings, Martin. I hope some of it made sense!:o
I commend you for facing this issue and wish you good luck with the project. :T
Much Love,
Tiff xxx

UKTigerlily

Martin, thankyou! I've got into *serious* money problems through lack of understanding & judgement, I have Borderline Personality Disorder & also there's a possibility I have Bipolar disorder, both conditions cause impulsiveness. If you need to speak to anyone on BPD specifically, Josh Ward of the charity BPDWorld.com is the man to ask!

Tiff_2

Hi Martin,
I felt the urge to add a little more to my earlier post. These are only my opinions from my personal experiences for what they're worth, and I wouldn't dare to presume to think that they're any more valid than anyone else's opinions.;)

Right.
You will never get everyone with mental ill health issues to agree on what is the best approach for people in a mental health-finances discussion.
Mental ill health is a peculiar and unique thing because there are no set symptoms & treatments for everyone.
Indeed, each person can be affected differently, even if they have the same diagnosis as someone else.

There will always be the ''my illness/ circumstances/ legal rights/ personal civil rights'' factors involved in such a debate naturally.

For this reason, any publication will be most helpful to us imho, if we all understand that this is aimed at a broad spectrum of clients with mental ill health issues and/or their families/carers. Martin & the team would be writing till Doomsday othewise!;)

I think that the same format Martin uses for all his information should be used. It is always clear and concise. I'm sure this is the way it's bound to be already - so no insult intended Martin.

Such a step-by-step approach is always the easiest route to grasp, especially for people who find it hard to focus and concentrate, which is quite common for people with mental ill health. I'm sure that there'll be some kind of signpost system for a client/family to follow for advice on more complicated or personal situations.

I feel that any legislation/best practice should be directed at the financial institutions and support services, who are so often in charge of someone's overall care and situation when they're very ill.
Each mental ill health client should have a Care Co-ordinator, who is usually either a CPN or a Social Worker. They need to be the frontline eyes, ears and the checkpoint for their client's best interests.

I know how overloaded the sector is, but I really believe that if people had a point of reference to go to and they could find factual and practical advice on finances and its associated areas connecting to mental health, then maybe the abuse in these areas would lessen.

I'd just like to say that, in my humble opinion, we as the client shouldn't be the target of any legislation. Heaven knows there's enough of that as it is, not to mention the stigma attached!:rolleyes:

Why should I be ashamed, embarrassed or judged, just because I have mental ill health?
Mental ill health is not a choice.

As I said, mental ill health does not mean that people have lost their intelligence and it comes in varying degrees. But to have something there in black & white, to refer to, would be an enormous asset. We need more assistance and practical guidelines, not sanctions, and I thank you for being brave enough Martin, to address the issues.:T :A

Oh - and for all the people out there, all the execs who say no-one would be interested, point them in the direction of your very own Depression Support Thread, Benefits Threads etc. and show them the post & reading stats - and then double them Martin, because for everyone that posts, there's a silent 'lurker' reading!
Then maybe you could point out to them that the millions

(if they doubt this, point out the waiting lists of up to 3
years in some places and maybe more, for people
needing mental health treatment),

of people nationwide, with mental ill health & financial issues, and their carers, are extremely interested!!!

Oops, that's Tiff off her soapbox for the evening - sorry guys!:o
Much Love,
Tiff xxx

Errata

Tiff, your soapbox is invaluable - it helps you see farther and understand more which your posts demonstrate.

Martin writes that he will be working with MIND in the production of his guide. The knowledge, experience and skills of MIND will cover all bases relative to debt and mental health. As you point out, everyone's experience is unique to them, although there may be some broad similarities.

It's worth remembering that a great many senior people working in mental health, including the Royal College of Psychiatrists, are now open about the poor mental health they've experienced and in some cases continue to experience which they manage with good support. Like the general population, they may or may not, have problems with managing their finances. It isn't a case of one size fits all.

Any guide that has solid information and guidance for those who find themselves financially overwhelmed whilst experiencing poor mental health is, of course, invaluable to them, those who care for them and those who support them in a professional capacity.

Gold_Man

Hello. My first post here

I was surprised to learn from this site that while I was suffering from the aftermath of my Mother's death the Bank had been hitting me with unnecessary charges. This was when I was on benefits as well.

I was going to write a lot less here. This is a money site, not a health site, right ? But then I read on another page here how Banks are just another business trying to get your money. That consumers and companies aren't always the best fit.

That is epitomised by the patient / Pharmaceutical company relationship. Maybe the Doctor/NHS layer in between confuses people. How their business model ever got hitched up to people with serious problems I don't know. I do know that it adds to the atmosphere of patients as "customers" with little rights. Look at the Human Rights Act and then plough through a few front line stories in this health arena !

Is this why I was never advised properly in financial matters by the health system ? I'm on Disability Living Allowance and am still having difficulty getting advice about other benefits or financial help I can get.

There was mention of people "turning off" on this subject. Well, I know why, and I'm just going to say it.

The Pharma drugs are flawed and useless. More than that they are very dangerous. But don't hit the admin button ! I'm not just sounding off here. A Professor David Healy has proved in his research that there is at least a problem with these drugs. He appeared in Court, in the United States, with Dr Tracy of http://www.drugawareness.org in the Tobin vs. SmithKline case (you can look it up!). There have been other cases that have got people off Murder charges because it was PROVED that it was these Pharma drugs that made them do it ! Is this why this subject is so "hot", or a "turn off" ?

Now, as I said, this is a money site, but I think these facts should be known if you're working in this area.

Gold_Man

Fran

Gold_Man wrote: »

I'm on Disability Living Allowance and am still having difficulty getting advice about other benefits or financial help I can get.

Hi Gold_Man,

You can get information on benefits on the Benefits and Tax Credits board on this site. A lot of knowledgeable people post on there so ask away!

Gold_Man

Fran wrote: »

Hi Gold_Man,

You can get information on benefits on the Benefits and Tax Credits board on this site. A lot of knowledgeable people post on there so ask away!

Thanks. I'll have a look .

Gold_Man