Ukcps

robertoefc

Hello all, newbie here!

I have a vehicle on personal contract hire and have today received a Parking Charge Notice via my lease company issued by UKCPS.

The reason for the charge is overstaying stipulated time limit. The car park where I parked has for years been a 3-hours-free car park, however in recent times there has been confusion as the surrounding town centre is currently undergoing redevelopment, and for a brief period of time recently the car park did not appear to have any private ownership (it seemed to be in a state of flux being transferred from one private owner to another). The week prior to receiving this notice, licence plate reading cameras had been installed, however I noticed on the day of the offence that these had subsequently been removed. Furthermore, the signage which had always previously indicated a maximum parking time limit of 3 hours had been amended to 1 or 2 (I can't recall which), and I think now says 3 again.

I have received the ticket for having been parked 19 minutes over the allotted 3 hours. Am I right in recalling that a ruling was recently introduced to give leighway on time-over?

For what it's worth, I work in the building next to the car park and normally park in the NCP directly opposite however on this day I had insufficient change so parked in the 3-hours-free car park. I was taken ill in work, which is why I went over the 3 hours, however I have no way of proving this.

Many work colleagues receive these notices every day and ignore them, however as mine has been sent to my lease company, they have advised me to pay it, otherwise they will and they will then bill me for it in line with my T&C. Is there any way around this? I am absolutely flabbergasted at the unscrupulousness of this company, trying to charge £100 when it usually costs me £2.40 to park all day in the NCP over the road.

HELP guys!

Redx

no there has been no ruling on grace periods, at all

read the NEWBIES sticky thread and as this is an IPC member appeal around day 19 as KEEPER/HIRER of the vehicle (do not admit to being the driver)

this will likely be refused

tell the hire company that you are dealing with this as hirer/lessee and not to get involved

they should be following the BVRLA guidelines from 2.5 years ago and naming the hirer/lessee so they absolve themselves under POFA2012

THAT IS ALL THEY HAVE TO DO AND THEY HAVE HAD YEARS TO GET THEIR DUCKS IN A ROW !

theirs T&C are unlikely to have any clauses in them about private pcn,s , ie:- private invoices , because that is all it is , a speculative invoice

therefore they should follow BVRLA guidelines and name the hirer/keeper (not driver), direct to UKCPS , then bow out as there can be no valid claim once they have done this

you would then get a pcn in your own name

now please read that NEWBIES thread that explains this, with templates

Coupon-mad

Many work colleagues receive these notices every day and ignore them, however as mine has been sent to my lease company, they have advised me to pay it, otherwise they will and they will then bill me for it in line with my T&C. Is there any way around this?

If you appeal then UKCPS will target you instead of the lease firm. So that's how to take control of it, then if they try a small claim later on you need to be ready (how about getting photos of the signs as they appear NOW). I know they've changed...even so.

Your colleagues who are ignoring these are in for a nasty shock, especially if they collect more than one because some parking firms DO take people to court and UKCPS is one who sometimes does. People with multiple tickets are a far easier target and worth the £25 or so court fee, for these vultures. Your friends would be in for even more of a shock if they ignore court papers and get a default CCJ by not defending. Yes, it happens and then people can't get a loan, mortgage or new mobile phone or financial credit!

And no, we are NOT saying to join the parasites and find them by paying...

So, send an appeal that calls yourself the 'hirer/lessee' and say that the lease firm have passed the notice to you and therefore they have discharged any liability. And you wish to appeal because the driver is sure the signs in that car park allow 3 hours and that just a few minutes before and after parking is covered by the mandatory grace period of the IPC Code of practice.

Then ignore them, do NOT try IAS stage!

This is all covered in the NEWBIES thread post #1 and #3 near the top of this forum, albeit in your case I don't suggest a template appeal, which is why I wrote out what to say above. DO NOT call yourself the driver nor the 'keeper' just the 'hirer/lessee'.

Send a copy by email to the lease firm telling them they should have named you to UKCPS as the hirer lessee (have they done so?) but in any case you have appealed it and taken any liability away from the company so they have no business nor lawful excuse to pay it - even if UKCPS write again. Basically, forbid them to pay it unless they are covering it, because you won't, you have appealed, it is YOURS and any follow up letter to them by UKCPS would be a speculative invoicing scam. Point out it is not a fine from any authority so is not something covered by your lease t&cs (check, but we've seen them before...this is NOT a penalty).

So, UKCPS will not accept your appeal and you should then get letters begging and threatening you. Just don't ignore court papers if they arrive. Defendable but a pain...however the worst case scenario is losing and paying about £150 - £175 after a judgment at a hearing. NO CCJ nor black mark on credit whatsoever if you defend, even if you lost. Unlikely to go that far, most do not - but read each letter (don't tell us about debt collector letters and don't ask what the 'next step' is when you are offered 'IAS' in a rejection letter - please no!!).

All covered in the sticky thread and in all other IPC threads.

robertoefc

Thanks for your responses!

My hire/lease company forwarded a copy of the Parking Charge Notice to me and also a Third Party Representation letter which they have sent to the private operator. The TPR letter refers to me as the 'nominated person' and also states that I have 'full use of the vehicle' - it does not refer to me as the 'hirer' or 'leessee'.

I took a photo of the main parking notice yesterday and it actually doesn't stipulate a maximum time limit on it - rather, it says that only cars with permits can park there (I cannot post a link to an image I have uploaded) :eek:

There are a couple of other smaller signs stuck to lampposts within the car park and these do not mention permits but state a maximum free parking time of 3 hours.

Does this alter how I should approach this appeal? I remember about a week before being penalised asking our security desk in work whether they were aware of the new notice which indicated permits were required and they said no, and that the council normally do advise them when such a change takes effect (even though it is privately operated).

Confused!

Coupon-mad

OK wait for UKCPS to send something to you - should be a Notice in your name - then appeal ONCE as hirer/lessee, NOT writing about who parked/who did or didn't know about permits. Just talking about 'the driver in the third person and confirming you lease this car.

The TPR letter refers to me as the 'nominated person' and also states that I have 'full use of the vehicle' - it does not refer to me as the 'hirer' or 'lessee'.

Doesn't matter; that makes you the lessee and will mean you can send a challenge once you get a NTK and UKCPS cannot then later revert back to the lease firm.

The signs sound ambiguous and giving mixed messages - and probably overly wordy like in these court cases people won:

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/ukcps-claim-dismissed-judge-rules_14.html

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/ukcps-claim-dismissed-judge-rules.html

Get some photos of the mixed signs, for your own evidence now, just in case - and also ask the Security Manager or the person ABOVE him, to put in writing for you (should you later need it in a court hearing to resolve this) that no information about any obligation to issue or display permits was given to them, nor in turn, to you when you asked about it.

Even if you can just get a useful email confirming they too (site Security) were in the dark, that will help.

Do not try IAS stage appeal, just the first one when you get your own PCN - then go back under the radar. As explained in post #3 of the NEWBIES thread about 'IAS stage' and also see post #4 of that sticky thread about 'ignore the debt collectors' stage.

robertoefc

Well they definitely write to me separately? Haven't received anything yet.

Coupon-mad

Yes, you said the hire/lease company sent a Third Party Representation letter to the private operator, naming you as hirer.

So, if UKCPS want to attempt to hold you liable, they have to send you a Notice in accordance with para 13 and para 14 of Schedule 4:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted

We think they'll send you some sort of Notice this month but it won't be compliant with the Act. So wait for 'your' letter.

HTH

Redx

assume this is going to take a long time , dont be so impatient

assume that they may fail to send the correct paperwork

assume they may fail the correct timescales too

they have 6 years to try to enforce this invoice against you, they wont be in any rush and may philibuster , its a sc@m clouded by smoke and mirrors

robertoefc

OK thanks - I go away for a week next week so didn't want to miss the appeal cut off (on the letter they sent to the car lease company it says 28 days from the date on the letter).

Coupon-mad

Yes but 'your' new letter has to give you appeal time.

robertoefc

I'm becoming a little concerned that I've still not heard from UKCPS - should I be?