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Landlord returning deposit
alestorm
Posts: 19 Forumite
Hi All,
I've a bit of a problem with the landlord not returning our rent. Reasonably straightforward on face of it but a little kicker than means I don't know what to do next. I'll keep it really brief, but:
Landlord submitted costs deductions from deposit. Mainly based on claim there was some mould discolouration on a mattress and some shower seals and this was done by us not cleaning and therefore damage. This is strongly denied by us. Landlord provided no evidence other than a statement this is damage caused by us. We provided evidence, photos, links to legislation describing why we believe him to be wrong.
We disputed on basis of:
The flat is damp. We raised this with the landlord previously
We cleaned regularly (had to, I had a pretty severe allergic reaction to the damp in the flat)
When we handed back, flat was actually in very good condition, possible odd specks of mould
Discolouration in mattress followed the slats in the bed. It was cheap untreated wood, there is no way we could stop dampened getting in.
Seals were changed before we moved in, we would assert this is evidence of known damp issue.
Landlord acknowledges there is poor ventilation
Have correspondence form landlord confirming we keep place clean during the tenancy.
Raised that the extraction fans provided were not up to the task. They were not serviced in the 2 years of our tenancy
A whole host of other issues landlord failed to do (didn't submit a report, charged for a more expensive mattress not like for like, no depreciation consideration - all irrelevant because we haven't damaged the flat anyway.
Finally, (and that makes it a little more tricky) landlord submitted a cost for 'letting agency costs' when we moved out, in relation to him finding new tenants. I know this isn't allowed.
The landlord wrote back that because we have questioned his costs he has 'decided' to increase the costs. He has added other costs such as 'bed is a little bendy'. I have no idea what this even means. There are a whole host of other costs he has added relating to mould in curtains for example (curtains he doesn't know we didn't actually use, we took them down when we moved in because they are horrible). I don't see how we could do anything about mould forming when we have shown there is damp in the air, and that we cleaned regularly.
His reply was pretty vindictive and condescending, asserting i 'have no idea the costs associated with being a landlord' which i find odd because firstly it's not up to me on how he runs his business, and secondly I am a landlord and I would never behave in this way.
I know I'm just some guy on the internet and you have no way of telling what I say is true, but I genuinely believe that the landlord has no case at all. I spent hours putting together a detailed but respectful response with evidence, and his responses are arrogant and just assert we have to pay for what he has decided is damage. He has explicitly stated he is looking forward to going through arbitration because it will be a 'learning experience'. Such an attitude leads me to believe he is just gambling because it costs him nothing and he loses nothing. If he loses which I strongly believe he will there are no consequences, whereas we are stressed and anxious about the whole thing.
This leads me to a second point, the 'kicker'.
When we came to move out we submitted 1 months notice. Landlord disputed and said no, we had to give 2 months. We disagreed and said that because the AST had ended it was now a rolling month to month contract. A lettings agent contacted us asking when was the earliest we could move out, and that the landlord was willing to give us a refund on money we'd paid if he got tenants in early. We weren't actually through a lettings agent prior to this. Anyway, we said we were perfectly happy to stay the month and work out our tenancy as per the 1 month. We also gave a date 2 weeks prior to this as the earliest we could possibly move out. Pros and cons for both, moving out earlier was really inconvenient to us, but if we got some money back then fine. We left it pretty open, saying if we were to get some money back as a refund on last month rent we'd be happy to go earlier, equally if it was easiest for all involved then we'd be just as happy to go for the last day of the tenancy. We heard nothing back on a decision until the letting agents came back a week later to say new tenants had been arranged for the 2 week prior to our vacating. All fine, agreement in place.
Now the landlord has submitted the unreasonable claims on the deposit. The only way I am going to get our money back is through the Deposit Scheme arbitration. However, I spoke to them and even if we win which I fully expect, they will only rule for the initial deposit. So in the best case scenario we have 'lost' over £600, despite the fact we inconvenienced ourselves to move out earlier, and had an agreement confirmed in email that we'd get a refund. It is in light of this last part that makes me wonder what I should do next, and it anyone has any experience of anything similar. As I believe, my options are the arbitration for the deposit then small claims court for the £600, or just go to claims court for the full amount. I'm not sure what the pros and cons of both are, especially the small claims court route and was wondering if anyone had any thoughts or experience. Is it worth me just going to small claims court for the lot? I know it might not seem like a lot, but we are genuinely really upset by it, and we really don't want this landlord getting away with even a penny that he is not entitled to.
Sorry, I said it wasn't going to be long but it has turned out pretty long.
I've a bit of a problem with the landlord not returning our rent. Reasonably straightforward on face of it but a little kicker than means I don't know what to do next. I'll keep it really brief, but:
Landlord submitted costs deductions from deposit. Mainly based on claim there was some mould discolouration on a mattress and some shower seals and this was done by us not cleaning and therefore damage. This is strongly denied by us. Landlord provided no evidence other than a statement this is damage caused by us. We provided evidence, photos, links to legislation describing why we believe him to be wrong.
We disputed on basis of:
The flat is damp. We raised this with the landlord previously
We cleaned regularly (had to, I had a pretty severe allergic reaction to the damp in the flat)
When we handed back, flat was actually in very good condition, possible odd specks of mould
Discolouration in mattress followed the slats in the bed. It was cheap untreated wood, there is no way we could stop dampened getting in.
Seals were changed before we moved in, we would assert this is evidence of known damp issue.
Landlord acknowledges there is poor ventilation
Have correspondence form landlord confirming we keep place clean during the tenancy.
Raised that the extraction fans provided were not up to the task. They were not serviced in the 2 years of our tenancy
A whole host of other issues landlord failed to do (didn't submit a report, charged for a more expensive mattress not like for like, no depreciation consideration - all irrelevant because we haven't damaged the flat anyway.
Finally, (and that makes it a little more tricky) landlord submitted a cost for 'letting agency costs' when we moved out, in relation to him finding new tenants. I know this isn't allowed.
The landlord wrote back that because we have questioned his costs he has 'decided' to increase the costs. He has added other costs such as 'bed is a little bendy'. I have no idea what this even means. There are a whole host of other costs he has added relating to mould in curtains for example (curtains he doesn't know we didn't actually use, we took them down when we moved in because they are horrible). I don't see how we could do anything about mould forming when we have shown there is damp in the air, and that we cleaned regularly.
His reply was pretty vindictive and condescending, asserting i 'have no idea the costs associated with being a landlord' which i find odd because firstly it's not up to me on how he runs his business, and secondly I am a landlord and I would never behave in this way.
I know I'm just some guy on the internet and you have no way of telling what I say is true, but I genuinely believe that the landlord has no case at all. I spent hours putting together a detailed but respectful response with evidence, and his responses are arrogant and just assert we have to pay for what he has decided is damage. He has explicitly stated he is looking forward to going through arbitration because it will be a 'learning experience'. Such an attitude leads me to believe he is just gambling because it costs him nothing and he loses nothing. If he loses which I strongly believe he will there are no consequences, whereas we are stressed and anxious about the whole thing.
This leads me to a second point, the 'kicker'.
When we came to move out we submitted 1 months notice. Landlord disputed and said no, we had to give 2 months. We disagreed and said that because the AST had ended it was now a rolling month to month contract. A lettings agent contacted us asking when was the earliest we could move out, and that the landlord was willing to give us a refund on money we'd paid if he got tenants in early. We weren't actually through a lettings agent prior to this. Anyway, we said we were perfectly happy to stay the month and work out our tenancy as per the 1 month. We also gave a date 2 weeks prior to this as the earliest we could possibly move out. Pros and cons for both, moving out earlier was really inconvenient to us, but if we got some money back then fine. We left it pretty open, saying if we were to get some money back as a refund on last month rent we'd be happy to go earlier, equally if it was easiest for all involved then we'd be just as happy to go for the last day of the tenancy. We heard nothing back on a decision until the letting agents came back a week later to say new tenants had been arranged for the 2 week prior to our vacating. All fine, agreement in place.
Now the landlord has submitted the unreasonable claims on the deposit. The only way I am going to get our money back is through the Deposit Scheme arbitration. However, I spoke to them and even if we win which I fully expect, they will only rule for the initial deposit. So in the best case scenario we have 'lost' over £600, despite the fact we inconvenienced ourselves to move out earlier, and had an agreement confirmed in email that we'd get a refund. It is in light of this last part that makes me wonder what I should do next, and it anyone has any experience of anything similar. As I believe, my options are the arbitration for the deposit then small claims court for the £600, or just go to claims court for the full amount. I'm not sure what the pros and cons of both are, especially the small claims court route and was wondering if anyone had any thoughts or experience. Is it worth me just going to small claims court for the lot? I know it might not seem like a lot, but we are genuinely really upset by it, and we really don't want this landlord getting away with even a penny that he is not entitled to.
Sorry, I said it wasn't going to be long but it has turned out pretty long.
0
Comments
-
Yes, use the deposit scheme's arbitration service that's what it's for.
As for the £600 you've lost I'm not really sure where that figure has come from. You had a Statutory(?) Periodic Tenancy and served notice correctly (not 1 month but 1 tenancy period) yet your LL is trying to charge you for finding new tenants and some LA advertising fees? Is that correct?0 -
TL: DR
LA asked tenant to leave early, rent to be refunded. Rent wasn't refunded.
Answer: Small Claims - Google 'MCOL'0 -
Yes, use the deposit scheme's arbitration service that's what it's for.
As for the £600 you've lost I'm not really sure where that figure has come from. You had a Statutory(?) Periodic Tenancy and served notice correctly (not 1 month but 1 tenancy period) yet your LL is trying to charge you for finding new tenants and some LA advertising fees? Is that correct?
Hey Pixie,
Thanks for taking the time to read through. I suppose there are two issues:
1. Yes, landlord is trying to charge us for finding new tenants. I expect this, (and his other claims) will be thrown out by arbitration.
2. Complication is if arbitration rule the entire deposit back to us we will still be £600 down because landlord stated that he had tenants to move in 2 weeks before our tenancy was up. We agreed to go early on the agreement we would get a refund on the 2 weeks (which is the £600). Tenancy Deposit arbitration have said that essentially the £600 is nothing to do with them and they cannot instruct this is paid back, we'd need to go to small claims for this.
So I'm trying to work out whether to go to arbitration for the deposit then small claims for rest, or just go to small claims for it all. Does this make sense?0 -
TL: DR
LA asked tenant to leave early, rent to be refunded. Rent wasn't refunded.
Answer: Small Claims - Google 'MCOL'
Hi there,
thanks for this. My query is whether to go for the whole lot (deposit and rent refund) via this, or to go to arbitration for the deposit and refund by claims. As I have no experience on either I wanted to get some thoughts on people who might have experience of either.0 -
Right so there are two separate issues, the deposit and a rent refund.
Use the arbitration service to get your deposit back. Your LL trying to claim LA advertising fees when you have correctly served notice to end a periodic tenancy is laughable.
Do you have anything in writing from the LL or LA acting on his behalf to say that he will give you a rent refund for moving out 2 weeks early? If so then send the cheeky git a letter before action giving him 10 days to refund the rent. If he doesn't refund the rent then file a Money Claim Online.0 -
Hi there,
thanks for this. My query is whether to go for the whole lot (deposit and rent refund) via this, or to go to arbitration for the deposit and refund by claims. As I have no experience on either I wanted to get some thoughts on people who might have experience of either.
Apologies - its a long post, I took the gist.
the deposit is a separate issue, I would let ADR deal with that and concentrate on the rent.0 -
Right so there are two separate issues, the deposit and a rent refund.
Use the arbitration service to get your deposit back. Your LL trying to claim LA advertising fees when you have correctly served notice to end a periodic tenancy is laughable.
Do you have anything in writing from the LL or LA acting on his behalf to say that he will give you a rent refund for moving out 2 weeks early? If so then send the cheeky git a letter before action giving him 10 days to refund the rent. If he doesn't refund the rent then file a Money Claim Online.
Hey Pixie,
Thanks for this. Yes it is laughable, it's not just that, every single point I've offered a reasoned and evidenced argument to which he just totally ignores.
We do have something from him saying if we went sooner we could get a refund. It looks like I will have to go down this route. Appreciate the advice, I'm convinced we will win because I know he is trying it on. Only thing that bothers me is that it causes us the stress and anxiety (already had about 3 arguments with my girlfriend as a result) whereas he can chance his arm and there are no repercussions on him. Of course we are in London where there is no problem getting tenants even if he is shown to be a right git.0 -
Small claim via https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome0
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