Advice needed re late father's will

wombat42_2

sloughflint wrote: »

No expert here but I thought that if funds at each establishment is below a certain level ( £15k springs to mind)then probate is not required to gain access

I dont know the answer. I do know that probate isnt always required. Really probate is a checking process. The will could still be fake regardless of the amount involved. Can an expert enlighten us.

Ian_W

wombat42 wrote: »

We seem agreed about the property but as regards the rest of the estate Ive just said that it has nothing to do with the deeds.

But that's not what you said in your first post.

Unless the title deeds for the property specifically declare your father and mother as "tenants in common" rather than "joint tenants", anything in the will will be disregarded and simply everything your father owned will be automatically passed onto your mother without any need for probate.

We clearly don't know - but the "money" may be worth more than the house. The trust may have been made a condition of the fathers will to avoid IHT or it may be because he foresaw the "family at war" situation the OP alludes to and wanted to ensure his children receive his cash but his wife receives the income from it until she passes.
As there is a solicitor as executor and mother tried to vary the will be the OP objected do you still consider there is no need for the trust to be established?

wombat42_2

Ian_W wrote: »

But that's not what you said in your first post.
We clearly don't know - but the "money" may be worth more than the house. The trust may have been made a condition of the fathers will to avoid IHT or it may be because he foresaw the "family at war" situation the OP alludes to and wanted to ensure his children receive his cash but his wife receives the income from it until she passes.
As there is a solicitor as executor and mother tried to vary the will be the OP objected do you still consider there is no need for the trust to be established?

Not sure why you are making a big fuss about my first post when i clarified it in two later posts.

Maybe the deeds are "tenants in common". Obviously I dont know.

Obviously I dont know the circumstances of this trust but in most cases trusts are set up as a discretionary trust to minimise IHT.

localhero

Wombat's post at #3, is inaccurate. Whether the land/property was owned as joint tenants or tenants in common is irrelevant to the rest of Mistec's dad's will which states that his savings goes to his children. In any case he wanted the land/property to pass to his wife so it doesn't matter whether it was owned as tenants in common. If it was owned as tenants in common his Will would have to state who's to receive it. If it was owned as joint tenants it passes automatically to the co-owner irrespective of what the Will says.

The savings though are completely separate to land/property and his will states that the capital of his savings goes to his children once his wife dies. In the meantime the interest is to paid to his surviving spouse. This is called a life interest trust which provides some benefit to A, but ensures the capital passes to B, C & D etc (I think Ian's second possibility at #13 re "warring families" is the likeliest bet). There are in fact many types of trust rather than the discretionary trust that Wombat has in mind. The trustees must act unanimously and have very wide powers of investment. They have a duty to take professional advice and to invest reasonably diversely.

Probate is the process of a Will being proved, after which the executors are given their authority to act. Where the estate consists of small sums of money (usually below the £5000 mark), probate is not usually required, though the banks may still require sight of a Grant of Probate before they release the funds.

Where an estate consists wholly of jointly owned property which passes to the other joint owner Probate is not usually required.

I hope this provides a little clarity to a rather muddled thread.

Ian_W

wombat,
Your first post, to paraphrase it says,
If this hasn't happened - you'll get NOTHING at all from the will!
Don't you think that might cause the OP a little upset, worry, concern - alarm even?

The house seems to be a non-issue, however it was owned, it was left to mother in the will and that seems to be accepted by all parties including the lawyer as executor.

The crux was how does a trust work, invest the money etc which sand2880 had answered.

EDIT - Just to add I was typing when localhero posted and would thank him for the clarification. Unfortunately there is no "thank you" button on your post - and word to the wise, it's slapped legs and straight to bed if the link in your signature isn't authorised!

nearlyrich

I thought that the type of trust the OP is referring to had to be established before the death of the person setting up the trust in their will.

It's a very complex area and probably needs expert advice, although opinions on here are interesting and often useful if a lot of money is involved it's worth investing a relatively small sum in getting the best advice.

localhero

No Nearlyrich, these types of trust are almost always set up on death by the Will.

They can be set up before death but the disadvantage is that the donor cannot then benefit from the gift of the property put into trust. This would be an inconvenience and therefore makes more sense to set it up upon death in a Will.

wombat42_2

Localhero - can you just clarify this for me.

Is it true that any trusts mentioned in a will that relate to the property, require the deeds to be "tenants in common".

And that conversely, all trusts mentioned in a will not relating to property are automatically permissible.

localhero

Hi Wombat,

First of all it depends on what's to go into the trust. If it is land/property then that must be held as tenant in common otherwise it will pass automatically to the other co-owner.

The trust document must stipulate what the trust must contain - for it may be a savings account or the remainder of the estate excluding the house - in which case (like in the case of mistec) ownership of the land is a separate issue.

Whether the trust is valid or not will depend on how it's worded - it must appoint trustees, beneficiaries and the aim of the trust. The trustees powers are provided by the law and can be reduced or extended accordingly.

In the case of Mistec the trust property was the savings and not the house which is a perfectly usual type of trust.

mistec

Many thanks to all of you who've posted, and especially to Local Hero for explaining things so clearly.
It seems that a 'Life Interest Trust' is what we need, so we'll have to find out how to do that and I hope the solicitor involved can point us in the right direction.
The property is not an issue as it has passed to my mother directly, so my parents must have been 'joint tenants' though that isn't mentioned in the will (I have a copy).
The amount of money involved is around £40k, which I know isn't a great amount, but still enough to worry about where to put it!
Once again, many thanks for taking the time to help; it's much appreciated, especially as I'm the proverbial 'black sheep' of our family and my only contact is with one of my siblings and, eventually, the solicitor.
Kind regards
mistec