Father's debts, how to deal with them ?

konark

The money in the joint account will revert to your name only and does not form part of the estate, the same as a joint tenancy of a dwelling.

However, it is possible that creditors may apply to the courts to have some of the money in the account (usually half) put into the estate so that they can be paid. This is not entirely certain, and most creditors may simply write-off their losses, but if any creditor wants to take the trouble to get an 'insolvency administration order' to administer the estate they will almost certainly come after some of the monies in the joint account using a '412A notice'.

So get the bank to put the account in your name but don't spend it! If the creditors don't pursue the matter all the money in the account is yours after 5 years

Yorkshireman99

Changing the name on the account does not protect it from the creditors and not declaring it to the creditors is illegal.

getmore4less

konark wrote: »

The money in the joint account will revert to your name only and does not form part of the estate, the same as a joint tenancy of a dwelling.

Not always true, joint accounts for convenience where all the funds really belong to one person the money can form part of the estate.


I would back off and hope creditors don't claim you intermeddled.


The estate is insolvent, if it was a simple proportional distribution it would not be so bad but a sunken houseboat introduces a lot of complications.


If you do get roped in the liability should not exceed the assets but the houseboat situation would be my biggest concern as that could complicate distributions.

How long before he died did you buy the yacht and was it at market value?
Depending you may want to get that yacht moved ASAP.

Brit27

It was 14 months before he died when he sold the yacht on for a nominal £1 .
How long do you think it will be before the creditors become involved ?
So far I have just used the joint account to pay for his funeral, I was going to purchase a headstone too in a few months time .
I have a final energy bill on its way , as we had Dad in a rented apartment for his last few months .
I found out from his bank statements that he had paid somebody £4,000 over the month to salvage the houseboat and yet it still lies there , although it's contents have been cleared .
Another point to add, is that he had an industrial claim ongoing as his cancer was related to previous employment involving asbestos . His solicitor estimates a payout of around £30,000 once the courts hear his case .

Yorkshireman99

Brit27 wrote: »

It was 14 months before he died when he sold the yacht on for a nominal £1 .
How long do you think it will be before the creditors become involved ?
So far I have just used the joint account to pay for his funeral, I was going to purchase a headstone too in a few months time .
I have a final energy bill on its way , as we had Dad in a rented apartment for his last few months .
I found out from his bank statements that he had paid somebody £4,000 over the month to salvage the houseboat and yet it still lies there , although it's contents have been cleared .
Another point to add, is that he had an industrial claim ongoing as his cancer was related to previous employment involving asbestos . His solicitor estimates a payout of around £30,000 once the courts hear his case .

I strongly advise you not to do anything more until you have paid for professional advice. You really should do nothing more whatsoever with the estate assets. With luck the creditors might write the debts off but the large debt might make them try and recover something. I realise your instinct might be to try and resolve matters like the salvage but you are already potentially liable because you have inter meddled in the estate. By the way a headstone is not an expense chargeable to the estate.

Brit27

Yorkshireman99 wrote: »

I strongly advise you not to do anything more until you have paid for professional advice. You really should do nothing more whatsoever with the estate assets. With luck the creditors might write the debts off but the large debt might make them try and recover something. I realise your instinct might be to try and resolve matters like the salvage but you are already potentially liable because you have inter meddled in the estate. By the way a headstone is not an expense chargeable to the estate.

So you recommend that I seek a solicitors help ? I did just follow the online guides for contacting the various companies and organisations that my father had died, I didn't realise that this would be classed as intermeddling .

Yorkshireman99

Brit27 wrote: »

So you recommend that I seek a solicitors help ? I did just follow the online guides for contacting the various companies and organisations that my father had died, I didn't realise that this would be classed as intermeddling .

I would always advise anyone not to rely solely on advice from here or elsewhere online. Contacting the companies is not intermeddling but dealing with any of the estate assets can be hence the need for caution.

getmore4less

Brit27 wrote: »

It was 14 months before he died when he sold the yacht on for a nominal £1 .
.

That's deprivation of assets and close enough in time for creditors to come after it.

I the marina knows and are owed money they could take action to stop it disappearing.

konark

The money in the joint account becomes yours on the death of the other joint-owner and does not form part of the estate. None of the creditors know about it and may not pursue it.

I accept that a person who is merely a signatory to someone else's account does not become owner on the death of the main account holder but with a 'joint account' the bank are hardly likely to know or care which one of you the bulk of the money belonged to. Put it this way; if the account was 5 Grand overdrawn the bank wouldn't be asking which one of you spent this, you'd be now solely liable for it all!..The bank will transfer into your sole name automatically, but be aware the creditors may still come after this money. Don't be bullied into giving it to them unless they have legal authority

I don't think you could be accused of intermeddling paying for the funeral but you should not start paying off some creditors with estate monies and leaving others unpaid.

You are on a sticky wicket with the yacht, particularly if it's in the same marina as the sunken houseboat.

As for the rest of the estate even with the cancer compensation it is still likely to be insolvent so your best course would be to simply do nothing. Legal advice would be expensive for a complicated case like this and you may be just throwing good money after bad.

Yorkshireman99

Bad advice because in the case of an insolvent estate the creditors can, and indeed do, claim 50% of the value. It is an offence to conceal such an account. The OP has already paid some debts and has therefore inter meddled. Given the size of the debts the creditors are unlikely to just write them off without first trying to recover what they can. A few hundred pounds spent now could well save the OP a lot more. To effectively suggest that someone should just rely on advice from online sources is very unwise.