Deceased Estate and Pension

valio247

Hi everyone,
I am currently dealing with my deceased sisters estate etc...my sister has never married, does not own any property or land and has no Stocks, Shares or ISA's and very little money held in bank accounts - if fact all banks have released these funds already without probate.


I have spoken to someone from the Probate Registry and they have stated that under these circumstances probate it is very unlikely unless any financial institute requests probate prior to releasing any funds.


My sister has a deferred pension from many years ago (she was under 55 at the time of her death so was unable to draw any money from this). It looks likely the pension company do not require probate but on a letter I received from them regarding payment the final paragraph states:


"According to our understanding the claim value will not normally form part of the deceased's estate"

I have also read similar phrases on various leaflets & other information I have been given regarding dealing with estates and probate.


My sister has some debts owing which are greater than her assets WITHOUT the pension. However with this pension payment they do cover the debts.


Herein lies my question - does this statement mean that the payment received from this pension is 'ring fenced' regarding paying off any debts on the estate? In other words, is it 'kept separate' from all other assets and distributed in full to beneficiaries once estate is concluded.


Many thanks for any replies.

Yorkshireman99

valio247 wrote: »

Hi everyone,
I am currently dealing with my deceased sisters estate etc...my sister has never married, does not own any property or land and has no Stocks, Shares or ISA's and very little money held in bank accounts - if fact all banks have released these funds already without probate.


I have spoken to someone from the Probate Registry and they have stated that under these circumstances probate it is very unlikely unless any financial institute requests probate prior to releasing any funds.


My sister has a deferred pension from many years ago (she was under 55 at the time of her death so was unable to draw any money from this). It looks likely the pension company do not require probate but on a letter I received from them regarding payment the final paragraph states:


"According to our understanding the claim value will not normally form part of the deceased's estate"

I have also read similar phrases on various leaflets & other information I have been given regarding dealing with estates and probate.


My sister has some debts owing which are greater than her assets WITHOUT the pension. However with this pension payment they do cover the debts.


Herein lies my question - does this statement mean that the payment received from this pension is 'ring fenced' regarding paying off any debts on the estate? In other words, is it 'kept separate' from all other assets and distributed in full to beneficiaries once estate is concluded.


Many thanks for any replies.

The pension would appear to be ring fenced. However from what you say the estate is insolvent. Who have the funds been released to by the banks? From what you have said someone has what is known technically as "intermeddled" in the estate and that can result in them being liable for the debts. How was the funeral paid for as that has preference over any other debts.

valio247

Thanks for your reply. There was no will and as the closest next of kin (brother) the funds from the bank have been released to me as I am dealing with the estate. The sums in total were £1.08 & £5.96 which I deposited into a separate account I am using for assets. A third account contained a few hundred pounds which the bank released towards funeral costs. The remainder/shortfall for the funeral costs have been paid for by myself.

Yorkshireman99

valio247 wrote: »

Thanks for your reply. There was no will and as the closest next of kin (brother) the funds from the bank have been released to me as I am dealing with the estate. The sums in total were £1.08 & £5.96 which I deposited into a separate account I am using for assets. A third account contained a few hundred pounds which the bank released towards funeral costs. The remainder/shortfall for the funeral costs have been paid for by myself.

Noted. Nobody is going to worry about those two accounts. The best thing is to do nothing further and tell any creditors there is no money. It is likely they will write the debts off.

Tuesday_Tenor

From what you've said in OP

the pension benefit is totally separate from the estate.

It is an asset of the beneficiaries of the pension scheme.

It is NOT an asset of your sister's estate.

So it is not used to pay off your sister's debts.
Your sisters estate is insolvent. There has not even been enough to pay the funeral costs. The £7.04 is yours as part-payment for the funeral, which is the priority debt.

So write to any creditors to say there is no money. You could perhaps say there was insufficient for the funeral: it might prevent an 'are you completely sure?' round of correspondence. They will have to write off the debt.

Mojisola

Tuesday_Tenor wrote: »

From what you've said in OP

the pension benefit is totally separate from the estate.

It is an asset of the beneficiaries of the pension scheme.

It is NOT an asset of your sister's estate.

So it is not used to pay off your sister's debts.
Your sisters estate is insolvent. There has not even been enough to pay the funeral costs. The £7.04 is yours as part-payment for the funeral, which is the priority debt.

So write to any creditors to say there is no money. You could perhaps say there was insufficient for the funeral: it might prevent an 'are you completely sure?' round of correspondence. They will have to write off the debt.

And that no-one is managing the estate.

You could also ask them not to contact you further. You can include a copy of the death certificate - just a photocopy, they can buy the official one if they want.

valio247

Thanks to everyone for the advice - all very helpful. It does seem my sister had some debts owing to the DWP in the form of crisis type loans she was paying back a few pounds a week presumably these would have to be written off also?


The most worrying aspect is information given to me by one of her friends that she was being chased by several Debt Recovery Companies but information is very vague, I have arranged for her mail to be re-directed to me to ascertain to whom and how much.


I have also read that by placing a notice in The London Gazette gives a period of 2 months for anyone to contact me regarding debts after which it is too late - but if insolvent is it worth doing this?

Mojisola

valio247 wrote: »

I have also read that by placing a notice in The London Gazette gives a period of 2 months for anyone to contact me regarding debts after which it is too late - but if insolvent is it worth doing this?

There's no point doing this unless there is money in the estate to pay debts.

Doing so will also imply that you are managing the estate - never a good idea with an insolvent estate.

valio247

Thanks Mojisola - obviously by implying I am managing the estate is not a good idea. Although in some ways - by contacting bank, utility companies, phone, TV Licence etc...I am in some ways 'managing' the estate.


Is there a better term or phrase I could use when contacting these people - especially when dealing with those to whom money is owed.

Mojisola

valio247 wrote: »

Is there a better term or phrase I could use when contacting these people - especially when dealing with those to whom money is owed.

A letter saying that the person has died with a photocopy of the death certificate and stating that the estate is insolvent, nobody is dealing with it and for them not to contact you about it.

brewerdave

Did your sister actually nominate someone to receive the death benefits from the pension co? Such payments are discretionary anyway.