Why is it OK for politicians to lie?

wotsthat

CLAPTON wrote: »

I fully condemn the lies about 350 million per week as we actually directly send only 250 million per week (immediate Thatcher rebate)
and we have stuff spend by the EU back in the Uk (some wasted and some not)
so the net is about 165 million a week

what really surprises me is that the remain campaign didn't run lots of adverts saying we only pay £165 million each week to the EU.
That would have been really helpful and honest data

Indeed I have to say I can't remember the remain supporters on this board constantly reminding us, it was only £165 million a week so as to avoid people with feeble minds being needlessly misled

Big numbers confuse people.

What surprises me is leave didn't just go with £165m to start with. Most people are going to think that's an almost unimaginable amount of money and I would've thought has almost as much impact as £350m. Why lie?

Remain did talk in terms of £x billions rather than £xxx millions to use smaller numbers to tie into people's value anchors. Their campaign was also more positive - they wanted to talk about what we get from the EU to try and add context. I don't think it did for remain to be honest because our disengagement from Europe over many years means most people don't understand how it works (the discussions about how trade works on here being a good example) and are inherently receptive to hearing negative things about Europe.

Leave were able to focus on the cost as a bad thing in itself and didn't have to worry about a complex argument about whether that was good value or not. £350m/ day is a MASSIVE cost - end of.

I do wonder though what the feeble minds thought when Farage disassociated himself from the amount and NHS claim (the day after the result) in much the same way he might've disassociated himself from dog crap on the sole of his shoe. If there's such a thing as karma...

CLAPTON

wotsthat wrote: »

Big numbers confuse people.

What surprises me is leave didn't just go with £165m to start with. Most people are going to think that's an almost unimaginable amount of money and I would've thought has almost as much impact as £350m. Why lie?

Remain did talk in terms of £x billions rather than £xxx millions to use smaller numbers to tie into people's value anchors. Their campaign was also more positive - they wanted to talk about what we get from the EU to try and add context. I don't think it did for remain to be honest because our disengagement from Europe over many years means most people don't understand how it works (the discussions about how trade works on here being a good example) and are inherently receptive to hearing negative things about Europe.

Leave were able to focus on the cost as a bad thing in itself and didn't have to worry about a complex argument about whether that was good value or not. £350m/ day is a MASSIVE cost - end of.

I do wonder though what the feeble minds thought when Farage disassociated himself from the amount and NHS claim (the day after the result) in much the same way he might've disassociated himself from dog crap on the sole of his shoe. If there's such a thing as karma...

I absolutely agree that the 350 million per week should not have been used and the NHS bit was indeed untrue.

I absolutely agree that remain should have regularly stated that the money transfer to the EU was only 165 million per week.
The remain camp had ample (some government funded) opportunity to show how well our 165 million per week was used in the EU.

Malthusian

The £350m / £250m lie is relatively small beans compared to Osborne's claim that if Leave won there would be an immediate Emergency Budget and 4p added to the basic rate of income tax - which he has now admitted was a lie. I'm surprised Leave hasn't made more capital out of that - every time Remainders go "Where's the £350m for the NHS? Where's the plan?" Leave can retort "Where's the Emergency Budget? When is income tax going up?" I suppose they don't want to be bad winners.

wotsthat

Malthusian wrote: »

The £350m / £250m lie is relatively small beans compared to Osborne's claim that if Leave won there would be an immediate Emergency Budget and 4p added to the basic rate of income tax - which he has now admitted was a lie. I'm surprised Leave hasn't made more capital out of that - every time Remainders go "Where's the £350m for the NHS? Where's the plan?" Leave can retort "Where's the Emergency Budget? When is income tax going up?" I suppose they don't want to be bad winners.

I don't think one lie excuses another.

wotsthat

CLAPTON wrote: »

I absolutely agree that remain should have regularly stated that the money transfer to the EU was only 165 million per week.

I didn't say that.

Out of interest if you've been running the remain campaign would you have driven around in a bus saying £165m/ week money transfer to the EU?

CLAPTON

wotsthat wrote: »

I didn't say that.

Out of interest if you've been running the remain campaign would you have driven around in a bus saying £165m/ week money transfer to the EU?

no, I would have lied (by omission) to the electors as well.

tempus_fugit

Malthusian wrote: »

Considering the Remainders have been saying for years that it's unfair that the UK should get a rebate and we should be good Europeans and stop being so selfish and pay our fair share,

Neither I nor any Remain voter that I know has ever said anything of the sort.

tempus_fugit

Malthusian wrote: »

The £350m / £250m lie is relatively small beans compared to Osborne's claim that if Leave won there would be an immediate Emergency Budget and 4p added to the basic rate of income tax - which he has now admitted was a lie. I'm surprised Leave hasn't made more capital out of that - every time Remainders go "Where's the £350m for the NHS? Where's the plan?" Leave can retort "Where's the Emergency Budget? When is income tax going up?" I suppose they don't want to be bad winners.

Like you are you mean?

And the fact that there have been no tax rises as yet means nothing. They could still go up at some point in the future due to coming out of the EU, there was nothing to say that any such measures would be immediate.

wotsthat

CLAPTON wrote: »

no, I would have lied (by omission) to the electors as well.

Lying by omission is hiding facts to misrepresent. That's clearly not the case here

How do you lie to the electorate when the figure you're trying to 'suppress' is in the public domain and easily available.

http://bfy.tw/6Xzh

kinger101

stator wrote: »

Someone who tries something different and answers questions truthfully gets slaughtered by the media who are far too good at destroying people like Corbyn. Only the slimey gits like Cameron survive by plausible deniability.

Corbyn was saying he was pro-EU. That's a stinking lie.