World Trade Organisation Rules

CLAPTON

wotsthat wrote: »

It's not as simple as that. For a start you don't take one number from another - you add them together - so we'd be asking UK and EU citizens to pay an additional £14bn just to trade the same stuff they do now. The consumer pays and they decide.

that isn't so.
The EU27 consumers will pay more import tariffs (as they do now on non EU products),
but the UK can set its own tariffs on EU products which could be zero.
Additional where we currently import from non-EU countries we HAVE to impose tariffs making consumer prices higher, we will now be able to set them lower and reduce the cost of living in the UK.

Aliliva

CLAPTON wrote: »

nonsense

import duties are imposed by the receiving country
it will be up to the UK government to choose whether we impose any import taxes and if so how much (a choice we don't have to day)

I was just answering to the figure someone posted...if the UK government goes for a non-protectionist trade deal, with very low import tariffs, I'm more than happy!


My last few cents: the referendum has spoken, can we all calm down and just try to make the best out of it? Stop insulting each other might be a good starting point! And, possibly, also stop insulting "migrants", as some ppl on this board are not UK citizens

Alan_Brown

Generali wrote: »

I think anyone that voted Leave without any sort of clue what the plan is an idiot.

I have no problem with people disagreeing with me, I encourage it because I am unequivocally in favour of free speech.

However if you vote in favour of nothing at all, can't articulate what you voted in favour of and can just tell me what a !!!! I am for mentioning that you might have voted for something that you don't knlow then I absolutely think you are an idiot. Frankly that's me being nice about it.

So what exactly did you vote for? What was your Leave vote about?

I don't really care whether I support it or not, it's about whether you have a clue what you voted for. I don't think you do.

I haven't mentioned how I voted in the referendum and I haven't stated whether I thought either argument was a good or bad thing. We are where we are and so I am asking about where we go from here. The worst case scenario seems to be that we go with WTO agreements and I was seeking some information on them.

You seem to be very angry and I appreciate that, but your anger seems to be misplaced and all you will do is alienate people with this attitude. You have built up a lot of goodwill with your pleasant and reasonable approach to forums, leaving the unpleasantness to others. You seem intent on undermining all that with lashing out at people, some who may deserve it some who probably don't.

I place myself in the latter camp.

Anyway, I thought you were now living and working in Australia? I don;t see how the brexit materially impacts you if that is the case?

wotsthat

CLAPTON wrote: »

that isn't so.
The EU27 consumers will pay more import tariffs (as they do now on non EU products),
but the UK can set its own tariffs on EU products which could be zero.
Additional where we currently import from non-EU countries we HAVE to impose tariffs making consumer prices higher, we will now be able to set them lower and reduce the cost of living in the UK.

Just taking the figures presented by Alan at face value. Also pointing out the non-tariff barriers aren't insignificant either.

What happens I don't know but I'll add lower import tariffs to the would, could, should and wish list which was at the core of the leave campaign.

Alan_Brown

wotsthat wrote: »

It's not as simple as that. For a start you don't take one number from another - you add them together - so we'd be asking UK and EU citizens to pay an additional £14bn just to trade the same stuff they do now. The consumer pays and they decide.

Currently if I want to export a truck of chicken breast, say, to Spain I simply put it on a truck and send it with nothing more than normal commercial documents.

If the UK becomes a 'third country' then as well as the tariffs the consignment will need to be certified that it meets the requirements of the EU. That will require a health certificate signed by a vet working for a competent authority approved by the EU. Probably need an import license too which can only be gained if I can prove my factory and processes meet EU standards - these are very detailed and extensive and cover things like method of slaughter and flock densities.

Coming the other way the Spanish chicken (and factory) would need to meet UK standards.

Currently we have common standards across Europe and so initially it wouldn't be the end of the world because we'd be on the same page. Any divergence though creates problems because, for example, it might require the UK or Spanish factory to invest to keep that business going. A US factory I know refused to invest to meet some new EU standards and that trade just stopped.

On the chicken theme I can buy chicken breast in a third country for $x that meets EU standards and import it. If I go on holiday to that third country I can go into a supermarket and buy chicken for roughly two thirds of $x. i.e. the difference is the cost of meeting EU standards.

Being a third country isn't a panacea because of the multitude of non-trade barriers. Trade could only fall in that circumstance and if the balance changes then so will the balance of tariffs. Also don't forget WTO rules would only be used if there had been a complete failure of negotiations which, in itself, is hardly conducive to good trading relations.

It also shouldn't be forgotten that we're talking about widgets etc. which is a small part of UK exports. I don't know as much about the trade in services but my understanding is there are even more non-tariff barriers than manufactured goods.

This is the sort of informative post I was hoping for (and expecting). Thanks for restoring my faith in this board! I was knocked completely sideways by the aggression coming from generali with his posts earlier.

I assume that once the dust settles, the UK and Eu will come up with a mutually beneficial trade agreement, but it's good to know what other possibilities exist and their implications.

Thanks for the info.

Generali

Alan_Brown wrote: »

I haven't mentioned how I voted in the referendum and I haven't stated whether I thought either argument was a good or bad thing. We are where we are and so I am asking about where we go from here. The worst case scenario seems to be that we go with WTO agreements and I was seeking some information on them.

You seem to be very angry and I appreciate that, but your anger seems to be misplaced and all you will do is alienate people with this attitude. You have built up a lot of goodwill with your pleasant and reasonable approach to forums, leaving the unpleasantness to others. You seem intent on undermining all that with lashing out at people, some who may deserve it some who probably don't.

I place myself in the latter camp.

Anyway, I thought you were now living and working in Australia? I don;t see how the brexit materially impacts you if that is the case?

I'm not angry and I don't care if I alienate anyone. I have my views and I am happy to discuss them and change them if someone persuades me that I am wrong (this happens regularly).

I think that people that voted Leave made a terrible mistake. I want to understand whether I am wrong and to do that I want to know what the plan is for what follows.

So what happens next? Make me understand why I am wrong and I'll agree with you that Leave was the right vote.

However the more people that can't articulate what happens after a Leave vote insult me the more I think they are idiots. I can't help that really, the ball is in your court frankly.

Alan_Brown

Aliliva wrote: »

My last few cents: the referendum has spoken, can we all calm down and just try to make the best out of it? Stop insulting each other might be a good starting point!

Amen to that! Jeeze, I was wondering what the hell I'd stepped into when I posted my question.

Thanks to the always reasonable wotsthat for calming my frayed nerves! :beer:

Alan_Brown

Generali wrote: »

I'm not angry and I don't care if I alienate anyone. I have my views and I am happy to discuss them and change them if someone persuades me that I am wrong (this happens regularly).

I think that people that voted Leave made a terrible mistake. I want to understand whether I am wrong and to do that I want to know what the plan is for what follows.

So what happens next? Make me understand why I am wrong and I'll agree with you that Leave was the right vote.

However the more people that can't articulate what happens after a Leave vote insult me the more I think they are idiots. I can't help that really, the ball is in your court frankly.

Well you're coming across as a complete knob, but that's your choice.

Generali

Alan_Brown wrote: »

Well you're coming across as a complete knob, but that's your choice.

I'm simply trying to understand what Leave voters think comes next. You guys won the vote fair and square so what happens now? What's the plan? What is the future that you see for the UK.

It doesn't seem to be an unreasonable question.

What's the plan?

martinsurrey

CLAPTON wrote: »

that isn't so.
The EU27 consumers will pay more import tariffs (as they do now on non EU products),
but the UK can set its own tariffs on EU products which could be zero.
Additional where we currently import from non-EU countries we HAVE to impose tariffs making consumer prices higher, we will now be able to set them lower and reduce the cost of living in the UK.

So a car produced in Sunderland will be more expensive in Germany than a car produced in Greece.

doesn't sound good for their jobs...