World Trade Organisation Rules

Aliliva

Alan_Brown wrote: »

Who gets the tax though? VAT goes to the government and companies registered for VAT can claim it back. Can this not happen with import tariffs?

I do really hope so! But my "final consumer" point of view is that I'll have to pay up to 10% more on goods imported from the EU.
We could also argue on the end destination of this extra tax income, but that's politics and I'd rather leave it out of my posts :A

Generali

TBH I can't really be bothered to look it up for you.

If you Google WTO rules then you'll see that WTO trade rules are that tariffs should be a maximum of 5%. The EU breaks that routinely as does the agreement signed between the EU and Canada.

Idiots.

Generali

Alan_Brown wrote: »

Who gets the tax though? VAT goes to the government and companies registered for VAT can claim it back. Can this not happen with import tariffs?

Tariffs aren't VAT.

CLAPTON

Aliliva wrote: »

Import taxes are imposed on the product when it arrives in the country where it'll be sold. Basically, it's like an additional VAT on the product, so it's totally paid by the final consumer. This means that UK consumers (us) will have to pay 9bn an year more than we do today for our shopping, while EU consumers will have to pay 5bn a year more than they do right now.
So, we won't be 4bn better off, quite the contrary, we'll have to pay 4bn more a year :eek:

nonsense

import duties are imposed by the receiving country
it will be up to the UK government to choose whether we impose any import taxes and if so how much (a choice we don't have to day)

Generali

Alan_Brown wrote: »

I found this statement:

"The EU is committed to multilateralism and has acknowledged the fundamental importance of WTO in the international trade system.

Being the world's major global player in the international trade, the EU supports the work of the WTO on multilateral rule-making, trade liberalisation and sustainable development."

It doesn't seem to bear out your statement (quite the opposite), but I'll keep on searching.

EDIT: I found this with further searching:

"A fundamental, if rather obvious point to emphasise is that whatever controversy there may be over the exact legal status of WTO law within the EC legal order, there is no question about the binding nature of the former. The EC, as a signatory and party along with its Member States, to the WTO, clearly accepts that the obligations contained in the WTO agreements are legally binding upon it. How those obligations are to be given effect may be a matter of dispute, but their binding nature is not, and it is primarily the political institutions which must give effect to WTO law. If an EC action or measure is found to conflict with the provisions of the GATT, for example, it is up to the Commission and the other institutions to find a solution which is compliant."

Groovy.

The EU has tariffs well in excess of the WTO 5% on agricultural goods for example.

Italian tinned tomatoes are cheaper than those grown in Australia in Australia because of subsidies and taxes.

buglawton

Aliliva wrote: »

Import taxes are imposed on the product when it arrives in the country where it'll be sold. Basically, it's like an additional VAT on the product, so it's totally paid by the final consumer. This means that UK consumers (us) will have to pay 9bn an year more than we do today for our shopping, while EU consumers will have to pay 5bn a year more than they do right now.
So, we won't be 4bn better off, quite the contrary, we'll have to pay 4bn more a year :eek:

That 4bn will be a new source of tax revenue to HMR that doesn't exist at the moment. VAT can be adjusted to compensate so the consumer won't feel it - unless the importing country's govt wants the consumer to feel it, of course.
The EU can do the same on it's imports from us. All in all I think the EU comes our worse!

Alan_Brown

Generali wrote: »

TBH I can't really be bothered to look it up for you.

If you Google WTO rules then you'll see that WTO trade rules are that tariffs should be a maximum of 5%. The EU breaks that routinely as does the agreement signed between the EU and Canada.

Idiots.

I have to say that I'm a little dumbstrck with your attitude, gen. I don't contribute much to these boards, but I read a lot (mostly I'm on the solar baord as I have a huge interest in renewables) but I do pop into the discussion boards from time to time.

I've always found your posts to be really informative and well balanced and you always back up your statements with facts. I've not been in here since the brexit vote so I'm assuming that you were a remain voter and you're disappointed with the result?

I'm also hoping that that you're calling Canada and the EU idiots and not me?

wotsthat

Alan_Brown wrote: »

"Britain could have to impose £9bn worth of additional tariffs on imports. Exporters could face an extra £5bn of tariffs on their sales abroad."

It's not as simple as that. For a start you don't take one number from another - you add them together - so we'd be asking UK and EU citizens to pay an additional £14bn just to trade the same stuff they do now. The consumer pays and they decide.

Currently if I want to export a truck of chicken breast, say, to Spain I simply put it on a truck and send it with nothing more than normal commercial documents.

If the UK becomes a 'third country' then as well as the tariffs the consignment will need to be certified that it meets the requirements of the EU. That will require a health certificate signed by a vet working for a competent authority approved by the EU. Probably need an import license too which can only be gained if I can prove my factory and processes meet EU standards - these are very detailed and extensive and cover things like method of slaughter and flock densities.

Coming the other way the Spanish chicken (and factory) would need to meet UK standards.

Currently we have common standards across Europe and so initially it wouldn't be the end of the world because we'd be on the same page. Any divergence though creates problems because, for example, it might require the UK or Spanish factory to invest to keep that business going. A US factory I know refused to invest to meet some new EU standards and that trade just stopped.

On the chicken theme I can buy chicken breast in a third country for $x that meets EU standards and import it. If I go on holiday to that third country I can go into a supermarket and buy chicken for roughly two thirds of $x. i.e. the difference is the cost of meeting EU standards.

Being a third country isn't a panacea because of the multitude of non-trade barriers. Trade could only fall in that circumstance and if the balance changes then so will the balance of tariffs. Also don't forget WTO rules would only be used if there had been a complete failure of negotiations which, in itself, is hardly conducive to good trading relations.

It also shouldn't be forgotten that we're talking about widgets etc. which is a small part of UK exports. I don't know as much about the trade in services but my understanding is there are even more non-tariff barriers than manufactured goods.

CLAPTON

Generali wrote: »

Groovy.

The EU has tariffs well in excess of the WTO 5% on agricultural goods for example.

Italian tinned tomatoes are cheaper than those grown in Australia in Australia because of subsidies and taxes.

so that means that the UK will be able to import agricultural products without imposing 17% EU import duties so reducing the cost of living for the people of the UK.

Generali

Alan_Brown wrote: »

I have to say that I'm a little dumbstrck with your attitude, gen. I don't contribute much to these boards, but I read a lot (mostly I'm on the solar baord as I have a huge interest in renewables) but I do pop into the discussion boards from time to time.

I've always found your posts to be really informative and well balanced and you always back up your statements with facts. I've not been in here since the brexit vote so I'm assuming that you were a remain voter and you're disappointed with the result?

I'm also hoping that that you're calling Canada and the EU idiots and not me?

I think anyone that voted Leave without any sort of clue what the plan is an idiot.

I have no problem with people disagreeing with me, I encourage it because I am unequivocally in favour of free speech.

However if you vote in favour of nothing at all, can't articulate what you voted in favour of and can just tell me what a !!!! I am for mentioning that you might have voted for something that you don't know then I absolutely think you are an idiot. Frankly that's me being nice about it.

So what exactly did you vote for? What was your Leave vote about?

I don't really care whether I support it or not, it's about whether you have a clue what you voted for. I don't think you do.