English in Scotland

Prudent

I realise at this stage the way forward to is pure speculation, so I am just raising another point for discussion. If the SNP go for another referendum, are successful and go onto join The EU where does that leave the English who are resident in Scotland and the Scots who are resident in England? Will either have an automatic right to remain?

mrginge

Prudent wrote: »

I realise at this stage the way forward to is pure speculation, so I am just raising another point for discussion. If the SNP go for another referendum, are successful and go onto join The EU where does that leave the English who are resident in Scotland and the Scots who are resident in England? Will either have an automatic right to remain?

We would need to have a referendum to decide.

kinger101

It wouldn't be automatic, but I can't see England (or more correctly England Wales & NI) and Scotland wanting to prohibit the free movement of people between the two countries.

zagubov

kinger101 wrote: »

It wouldn't be automatic, but I can't see England (or more correctly England Wales & NI) and Scotland wanting to prohibit the free movement of people between the two countries.

Absolutely not a problem.

In 2014 it was already agreed that nobody born in the UK who ended up in an iScotland would be stripped of their UK citizenship.

The UK's got enough to deal with to attract trade and tourism without creating more red tape. And why would either country tear up the Commonwealth or the British isles' Free Travel Area which already allows anybody to travel visa-free into and out of the various EU countries and non-EU territories.

Prudent

Is that a legally binding agreement? The goalposts seem to be shifting a lot just now. Also I am still not clear how that helps the English in Scotland. Having UK citizenship would surely only entitle someone to live in the UK. Scotland would no longer be part of the UK.

kinger101

zagubov wrote: »

Absolutely not a problem.

In 2014 it was already agreed that nobody born in the UK who ended up in an iScotland would be stripped of their UK citizenship.

The UK's got enough to deal with to attract trade and tourism without creating more red tape. And why would either country tear up the Commonwealth or the British isles' Free Travel Area which already allows anybody to travel visa-free into and out of the various EU countries and non-EU territories.

It's not simply an issue of travel. There is also the issue of right to work. There were mechanisms at the last Scotland referendum to grant citizenship to someone habitually resident there, and Scotland's plan was somehow to rejoin or remain in the EU (though Barrosa was being a **** about this at the request of Spain).

With a non-EU England,Wales/NI, there would need to be specific legislation to permit (future) visa-free work in Scotland (and vice versa) if whatever terms we negotiate didn't include membership of the EEA or free trade area (i.e., same terms as the Swiss). Commonwealth membership doesn't permit this.

Back to the Barrosa point, it will be interesting to see the previous arguments used to say Scotland couldn't automatically join the EU melt away now the situation has changed.

mrginge

kinger101 wrote: »

Back to the Barrosa point, it will be interesting to see the previous agreements used to say Scotland couldn't automatically join the EU melt away now the situation has changed.

That's got to be the key point really and I suspect it's why sturgeon is making all the (somewhat opportunistic) bluster while still holding back from declaring all out war on Westminster.

It will be interesting to see if indy2 was so appealing to the scots if there was no doubt that they had to fully divorce from uk first and then risk the terms of a standalone application to the EU.

And it would be very interesting if they went down that road before the UKs exit deal was finalised and it turned out to be not quite as bad as the mighty sturg had painted it...

CLAPTON

Nicola will only call for a new referendum when the SNP feel certain of victory
however, the recent record of the polls being right is not very encouraging

what will she do?

Thrugelmir

CLAPTON wrote: »

Nicola will only call for a new referendum when the SNP feel certain of victory
however, the recent record of the polls being right is not very encouraging

what will she do?

Put the ability to hold one in place. Then wait.

The remainder of the UK can then decide what to do. Either Scotland is in or out. Scotland cannot sit on the fence indefinately. Could trigger some business movement.

zagubov

Prudent wrote: »

Is that a legally binding agreement? The goalposts seem to be shifting a lot just now. Also I am still not clear how that helps the English in Scotland. Having UK citizenship would surely only entitle someone to live in the UK. Scotland would no longer be part of the UK.

IIRC the SG were planning to offer citizenship to all residents.

kinger101 wrote: »

It's not simply an issue of travel. There is also the issue of right to work. There were mechanisms at the last Scotland referendum to grant citizenship to someone habitually resident there, and Scotland's plan was somehow to rejoin or remain in the EU (though Barrosa was being a **** about this at the request of Spain).

With a non-EU England,Wales/NI, there would need to be specific legislation to permit (future) visa-free work in Scotland (and vice versa) if whatever terms we negotiate didn't include membership of the EEA or free trade area (i.e., same terms as the Swiss). Commonwealth membership doesn't permit this.

Back to the Barrosa point, it will be interesting to see the previous agreements used to say Scotland couldn't automatically join the EU melt away now the situation has changed.

Spain wasn't going to be a problem; remember this was during a diplomatic spat between Spain and the UK regarding Gibraltar. The tame media painted a bizarre scenario where Spain would have to find new fishing grounds to keep the UK government happy. Never in a million years. :rotfl:

Yolina

Anyone for swapsies :rotfl: I'm happy to move to Scotland if they rejoin the EU...