Indigo rail car park penalty notice/online appeal

Umkomaas

For POPLA you'll need the following points:

Signage
No proprietory interest in the land
Unredacted landowner contract for Indigo to:
- manage the car park
- issue charges
- take court action in their own name
Beavis dismantlement - penalty rule not disengaged
Bye-laws
No keeper liability (fails PoFA 2012 requirements)
http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/keeper-liability/
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted
Unfair terms - Consumer Rights Act 2015
http://united-kingdom.taylorwessing.com/fileadmin/files/docs/CRA15_UnfrairContractTerms.pdf

Something to be getting on with for you. HTH

Spacesimian2016

On it - thank you very much for those key points to nail down.

Spacesimian2016

Indigo came back to me quickly on my appeal with an email (23.06.16) and have decided to uphold the PCN. Having declared my self the driver via the appeal and following what they have said in response I am unsure about taking it any further with them.
Apologies for being verbatim but hopefully this opens up angles on it.

- I 'chose to park' my 'vehicle in breach of the Terms And Conditions of parking which are displayed at the entrance to the car park'.
-> I will be having a look at these and their location/visibility/clarity, not sure if this will be enough with POPLA tho.
- Then it is all about these Terms And Conditions stating that by entering the car park I am in agreement with them; the T&C state that 'it is strictly prohibited for a vehicle to park in any other area then within a single marked space specifically designated for parking.' Failure to adhere and a PNC will be fixed.
- Most pertinent to my situation whereby the car park was already full due to a rail strike i.e., exceptional circumstances-
'If the car park is full, it does not entitle you to park in break of the Terms and Conditions and alternative parking / travel arrangements must be made. It clearly states in the Terms and Conditions that a ticket does not entitle you, unless otherwise specified, to any particular space in the car park. Therefore if you wish to purchase a ticket before securing a bay, this is at your own risk as we cannot guarantee that a space will be available.'
-> this is quite a leap isn't it, this 'therefore'? Should they not be stating this risk and that they cannot guarantee the space before I buy a ticket in advance? Not in the T&C and not mentioned at point of sale at Rail station, not verbally nor signed nor listed on car parking ticket issued (which comes in rail ticket form).

So I have my POPLA code; they have photographic evidence of my parking in an authorised area. I have declared that I was the driver.
Are the only angles to pursue with POPLA based on:-
- the T&C sign being out of sight/ not clear /legible
- Indigo passing on a risk that I should have been made aware of before buying a ticket that I then couldn't use ie. not stated in the T&C, that I cannot use a ticket, that I am not guaranteed parking - or does the T&C make this a non-starter?
-do I find out who owns the land to the car park (probably not Indigo/probably rail company) and is there a route that way?
I've got 14 days from the 23.06.16 to pay the reduced £60 rate and 28 days to appeal to POPLA - thank you again for your help and support on this. If people feel that they have the upper hand on this PCN it would be good to know but hopefully this is not the case.

bod1467

Are they chasing this as a parking invoice, on the basis of a contract was formed? If yes then they're talking utter borrocks ... you cannot contract to to do something which is forbidden.

(I'm assuming this was a typo "they have photographic evidence of my parking in an authorised area" and you meant UNauthorised)

Spacesimian2016

My apologies - that was a typo and should have been 'unauthorised'.
They are chasing this as a Penalty Charge Notice based on them asserting I parked my vehicle in breach of the Terms and Conditions, in this case 'Breach Code 3: Parked in an unauthorised area'.
Because the ensuing PCN is raising a £100 charge which requires payment to them from me then it could be viewed as an invoice of sorts but this terms is not mentioned by them, nor has there been any mention of any 'contract'. I am sorry if I am not giving you the information you need, thanks.

Coupon-mad

So search the forum for 'Indigo Penalty POPLA' (for example) to find POPLA appeals galore to crib from. We've had some really strong Indigo ones recently, look for a railway one from March/April or more recently. Already written! Copy and adapt!

bod1467

Spacesimian2016 wrote: »

They are chasing this as a Penalty Charge Notice

No they're not. They may say that, but they're not. POPLA don't consider penalty charge notice appeals. Therefore this is simply a Parking charge notice.

As C_m says ... check out other Indigo threads.

Spacesimian2016

Thank you for confirming and clarifying that crucial difference.
I am not sure I understand how Indigo call it a Penalty Charge notice and give a POPLA code in the same document when POPLA do not consider Penalty Charge notice appeals - are we saying that by my consistently calling it a penalty charge notice in a POPLA appeal I sidestep this as a potential issue in spite of what Indigo are labelling it?
many thanks again

Coupon-mad

It really doesn't matter - call it a penalty charge because they do, because they are pretending it's supported by Byelaws (it is neither one thing nor another in fact, all smoke and mirrors). Even if you lose at POPLA there's nowhere it can go.

Do take your time on your deadlines though - e.g. at POPLA stage submit it on day 30 because POPLA codes do work for a few days after the 28 (honestly). The point is to drag the entire thing out past six months, taking time at each stage, no rush.

Six months is the limitation for a real 'penalty' to be enforced. Then they've had it, even if you lost at POPLA. Which we don't, against Indigo.

Spacesimian2016

Thank you for coming back on the penalty point, as well as bringing up the all-important time-scale factor. I will keep looking at POPLA and beyond that, should that appeal not come out in my favour. I expect there are then Indigo legal letters and/or notices from debt collectors?