The U.S.E. (United States of Europe)

michaels

The euro is an integral part of joing the EU as monetary and fiscal union are an integral part of 'ever closer union' which is what the EU stands for. Why would we want to be part of an organisation that is moving towards being a European State when we (I think the vast majority in the UK beyond a small proportion of europhiles) don't want to be part of such a state?

When the EU consists of three countries, the Uk, Denmark and The USE will it really be an organisation in which the wishes of the UK are considered? Surely it will be much more like the USSR where the big country calls the shots and the satellites do what they are told. And of course because the UK is ouside the Euro we have no veto over what the Euro countries decide to do so we can not stop them forming the USE.

Generali

michaels wrote: »

The euro is an integral part of joing the EU as monetary and fiscal union are an integral part of 'ever closer union' which is what the EU stands for. Why would we want to be part of an organisation that is moving towards being a European State when we (I think the vast majority in the UK beyond a small proportion of europhiles) don't want to be part of such a state?

When the EU consists of three countries, the Uk, Denmark and The USE will it really be an organisation in which the wishes of the UK are considered? Surely it will be much more like the USSR where the big country calls the shots and the satellites do what they are told. And of course because the UK is ouside the Euro we have no veto over what the Euro countries decide to do so we can not stop them forming the USE.

Texas does very well in a similar position in the USA.

michaels

Generali wrote: »

Texas does very well in a similar position in the USA.

So you are suggesting that we should become a county of the U.S.E rather than our current situation as part of the EU but not the USE?

Culturally and economcially our links to the USA and the USE are probably fairly similar if we were outside the EU. If there were then a referendum on joing one or the other super states which should we choose?

CLAPTON

I think comparing the USA and the EU it is a very valuable comparison.

In the USA there is recognisable similarity in the political situation whether in N York or Los Angeles. Both cities would recognise the Presidential candidates and political parties and issues.
People in London and Rome would not find the same common ground.

mayonnaise

There will not be a USE.
There is no appetite whatsoever to join a USE, not in the UK, nor in France, nor in Germany, nor in the Netherlands, nor in Spain, nor in Belgium, nor in Italy, nor in Poland, nor in Portugal, nor in Ireland...etc...etc...
Really michaels, you're taking this project fear thing a bit far.

cells

At what size/population is a country most optimum on average for all the things that matter.

Should the united kingdom spilt into its 11 regions to further democracy accountability and self interest?

CLAPTON

The right size for a country is what the people think is right.
It will depend upon geography, history, culture, language and maybe religion and politics.

In the USA most think that their size is fine.

In the Uk most think that our current size is fine (maybe with reservations about NI due to history.

Most people through out europe don't think a union of 500 is the way forward.

Clearly in Yugoslav a relatively small country was 'too big'

The perceived democratic deficit in the EU isn't due to its size but the different history culture language etc of the its peoples

wotsthat

The USA has already progressed through the ever closer union stage and come through the other side. They seem to be doing OK.

I don't think we have the glue that binds us for a USE to be formed though. Also I don't think (hope) we'll ever adopt some of the methods Americans use to instil 'sameness' like excessive flag worship, jingoistic patriotism although all watching the same s**t telly seems to have slipped through the net.

Wake me up when Europe have a team at the Olympics and the European flag waving crowd are feverishly chanting U. U. USE. At that point I might take it more seriously.

CLAPTON

well it is s dilemma

ever closer integration is still the 'official' mantra of the majority.

many think that the current state of the euro countries is unstable without closer and more 'single country' like integration.

so what chance stability in the current situation?

chris_m

wotsthat wrote: »

The USA has already progressed through the ever closer union stage and come through the other side. They seem to be doing OK.

They didn't have as long as independent countries as Europe has, though

wotsthat

chris_m wrote: »

They didn't have as long as independent countries as Europe has, though

Also sparsely populated.

If anyone is worried about ever closer union there's a long list of practical reasons why we'll never get close to a USE.