DWP & Council overpayments

Colin5753

Need to start again

tomtontom

£29.60 is the maximum rate for cases of fraud, and each department can apply this separately. Reductions can be made in exceptional cases, where there are children in the household, if you have disability related costs that are not covered by DLA or PIP.

It would be worth posting your incomings and outgoings on the Debtfree Wannabe board, to see if they can help you make any savings.

NeilCr

Could be worth a visit to your local advice centre/CAB to see if they can help - they may well have a debt adviser who can give you some support and talk to the DWP and council on your behalf

atrixblue.-MFR-.

I would also ask Shelter to assist you if you at risk of losing your tenancy and becoming homeless due to the amount they are taking off you shelter have benefit advisors who can assist you in conjunction with CAB.
although my thinking is and I could be wrong, if the order from a court is implemented and the order states this is the amount to be collected until the debt is settled, then they have to apply to a court again to have this payment increased, just because the passage of time has passed they think they increase it without going to have the order altered, they maybe mistaken.


By my calculations you've paid over £5k to each party and if you havent defaulted recently or drastically, the judge is unlikely to alter a previous order if nothing has changed.


I would remind both parties that the there is still a valid court judgment in place if this is the case.

densol_2

Just to add the correct terminology is not " guilty" as this presumably was a civil case if you were found culpable on the balance of probabilities ? Its only guilty if its " beyond reasonable doubt "

If civil it is therefore " more likely than not " that you committed the act on the " balance of probabilities "

If you use words like " guilty " it suggests a criminal conviction ..... Unless it was ??

tomtom256

densol wrote: »

Just to add the correct terminology is not " guilty" as this presumably was a civil case if you were found culpable on the balance of probabilities ? Its only guilty if its " beyond reasonable doubt "

If civil it is therefore " more likely than not " that you committed the act on the " balance of probabilities "

If you use words like " guilty " it suggests a criminal conviction ..... Unless it was ??

There are no civil cases for benefit fraud.

They either lost an appeal on probabilty and have not been prosecuted owing to insufficient evidence or have been found guilty of fraud in court.

TELLIT01

Do you have any monthly bills which can be reduced? For example cable or internet contracts, phone contract...

atrixblue.-MFR-.

I would hold telling OP to reduce his outgoings (especially if he genuinely has no disposable income to save from) because if the OP was so ordered by a judg to repay XYZ at £6.60 per week then that order is legally binding and goes both ways, OP is bound to pay that judgment and likewise the Council and DWP cannot alter the payments without going back to court for a revision of the judgment like civil court if a magistrate orders repayment and set it at a certain rate, the council has to go back to court to alter it.


https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/debt-and-money/help-with-debt/changing-a-court-order-for-debt/#h-about-getting-a-court-order-changed


Now this is not like any other debt recovery where they have just taken it back through you payments like a social loan, you were so ordered by a magistrate or civil court? that you were to pay XYZ, so an order is in place?


1.would be to remind them of the order and that you appose the changes


2.would be to ask them under legal instrument do they have to alter the terms of a judgment.


3.You would either like them to go back to court if they wish to alter this judgment and send you a date so you can attend and bring along your income to show how much you can pay.


4. They can leave the judgment as it stands and you will continue to pay the amount that is being deducted from your benefits.


If you have the paperwork from this court date in 2000 and its particulars, then youd be able to send them copies of this.


I'm no legal expert I could be wrong in what I say but I would look upon it as a CCJ or Magistrates order, and stick to it and remind the DWP of it. The whole likely hood of the DWP and Council knowing what they were collecting the money for would be zero, they probably think your repaying a social fund and think there is no court order in place.



Is there a court order in place, do you have the paper work from it?


I think you should seek assistance of CAB and treat this like a debt recovery agent moving the goal posts of a CCJ repayment.

dippy3103

O/p have you been convicted by a court of a criminal offence? That would be (ad Densol points out) "beyond all reasonable doubt".

The recovery is a separate matter to the criminal element. The recovery is usually done by DWP/council using their civil powers to attach benefits/wages rather than go through with a compensation order by the courts.

Often what happens is that the rate of recovery is increased to £29.60 a week after conviction. You will need to show that this causing you hardship for the rate to be reconsidered by the DWP/council. It's rare that there is a court order in these matters.


The DWP and council will know exactly why they are recovering this overpayment.. They obviously are treating it as fraud, hence the high deduction

When was the court case? Have you been convicted of an offence?

konark

Can they deduct the higher rate without a criminal conviction, i.e they merely suspect fraud but can't prove it/ haven't taken it to court.

If they can it would seem that the DWP see themselves as above the law.

Prudent

I would agree with the suggestion that you post your budget on the debt free board. While some things like food seem quite high there are also things you may have missed. What about car tax, home insurance, hair cuts and internet? It might be worth sending a revised budget stating that you missed essential items.