I think I'm going to get less out of my pension pot than I've paid in...

zagfles

bigadaj wrote: »

It is but as well as potentially poor and expensive investments he has been unlucky in so far as the better stock market years have been early in his investment period. So larger returns have been made whilst smal sums have been within the pension, and lower returns over the past year or two when the invested sum has been much higher.

True, although my SIPP returned over 5% pa over the last 2 years (and far more in the previous 5). Under 3% pa average over the last 7 is poor.

Also the return has been much higher than an equivalent isa or unwrapped investment.

Yes the the pension wrapper was a good idea, perhaps not the investment. Although I guess it comes down to attitude to risk etc, the OP might have gone for a very safe option. Although even my (fairly cautious) corp bond funds are well up over 7 years.

Still would be a good time to look for a better value provider, assuming this can be done efficiently without losing things like employer contributions.

Indeed. I think we agree - it's not the pension wrapper that's the problem.

Thrugelmir

zagfles wrote: »

True, although my SIPP returned over 5% pa over the last 2 years (and far more in the previous 5). Under 3% pa average over the last 7 is poor.

Hindsight is a wonderful human invention. People tend to keep quiet when their decisions don't turn out so well.

zagfles

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Hindsight is a wonderful human invention. People tend to keep quiet when their decisions don't turn out so well.

The OP proves you wrong

dunstonh

The return is still rubbish though, well under 3% pa even accounting for an average length of investment of 3.5 years.

Its not necessarily rubbish as the OP has not yet mentioned the investments or the valuation point. Investments are generally hitting YTD high points in the last week but he could be working from a statement issued back in March or April when things were lower.

it could be heavily in a deposit fund or gilts for all we know.

zagfles

dunstonh wrote: »

Its not necessarily rubbish as the OP has not yet mentioned the investments or the valuation point. Investments are generally hitting YTD high points in the last week but he could be working from a statement issued back in March or April when things were lower.

it could be heavily in a deposit fund or gilts for all we know.

Like I mentioned above...

TJSHP

Thanks everyone for the advice and comments, I wasn't sure what to expect as it's my first venture into these message boards, so I appreciate the time you've taken with the thread.

I was reviewing the March 2016 valuation statement (the annual chore), and it just struck me that the returns were looking pretty thin. I don't need to release the cash but wondered whether the investment was working as hard as it could be. For the techies / pros out there, the fund is invested 75% in the Scot Wid Cautious Pen and 25% in the Balanced Pen.

Sounds like it could be doing better if transferred to another provider, based on the direction your comments are leaning.

Stupid question: Is the pot now irreversibly locked into a pension scheme (with whatever provider) or can the money be withdrawn to be invested outside a pension (excluding scammer plans of course)?

TJSHP

By the way, it's a personal pension, no employer

zagfles

TJSHP wrote: »

Thanks everyone for the advice and comments, I wasn't sure what to expect as it's my first venture into these message boards, so I appreciate the time you've taken with the thread.

I was reviewing the March 2016 valuation statement (the annual chore), and it just struck me that the returns were looking pretty thin. I don't need to release the cash but wondered whether the investment was working as hard as it could be. For the techies / pros out there, the fund is invested 75% in the Scot Wid Cautious Pen and 25% in the Balanced Pen.

Sounds like it could be doing better if transferred to another provider, based on the direction your comments are leaning.

Stupid question: Is the pot now irreversibly locked into a pension scheme (with whatever provider) or can the money be withdrawn to be invested outside a pension (excluding scammer plans of course)?

Yes so it sounds like mostly a "cautious" fund so that goes some way to explaining the performance.

Yes it's locked into a pension, but that shouldn't be a problem in terms of investment, you could transfer it to a SIPP and invest it in whatever you want (well almost - you couldn't choose a BTL for instance - but that would well up your risk profile!).

PensionTech

I was reviewing the March 2016 valuation statement (the annual chore), and it just struck me that the returns were looking pretty thin.

See dunstonh's post - March was a downswing so this may not give an entirely representative view of your fund. You shouldn't really be relying on just a snapshot of your funds for this reason.

I don't need to release the cash but wondered whether the investment was working as hard as it could be.

Nothing to do with whether it's in a pension or not, or even necessarily to do with whether it's in Scottish Widows or not. It is to do with the underlying investments of your fund, which you can control.

For the techies / pros out there, the fund is invested 75% in the Scot Wid Cautious Pen and 25% in the Balanced Pen.

Sounds low-risk to me so I wouldn't be too surprised by a low return, particularly if coupled with that statement being a snapshot during a dip, but I will leave it to the investment professionals to remark upon these funds and whether there's anything better available through Scottish Widows...

Sounds like it could be doing better if transferred to another provider, based on the direction your comments are leaning.

Selective hearing (reading)? I think only one person has suggested that there's anything wrong with the provider itself. If you're not sure what range of investments this provider offers, and what it charges, and how this compares to a different provider, then how can you be confident that transferring it will work any better for you?

Stupid question: Is the pot now irreversibly locked into a pension scheme (with whatever provider) or can the money be withdrawn to be invested outside a pension (excluding scammer plans of course)?

No, you can withdraw it all at 55 and stick it into an ISA or property or magic beans if you want to, but withdrawal in large chunks comes with a big tax hit (as explained above) and there is no particular reason why investment outside a pension wrapper should do any better than investment inside a pension wrapper. It's just a case of reviewing the actual investments.

dunstonh

I was reviewing the March 2016 valuation statement (the annual chore), and it just struck me that the returns were looking pretty thin. I don't need to release the cash but wondered whether the investment was working as hard as it could be. For the techies / pros out there, the fund is invested 75% in the Scot Wid Cautious Pen and 25% in the Balanced Pen.

Taking any snapshot date in isolation is a risk when doing a review. Even more so if you do not know what is happening or why at that particular time. March was lower than now. It hadnt recovered from the market crash at that point. Were you even aware there was a market crash last year? Are you aware that, when paying monthly, these crashes are great news. Your value goes down but what you are buying is cheaper and you need these negative periods to make more money in the long term. What they do in the short term doesnt matter to you as you dont need the money in the short term.

Those funds would suggest it is a stakeholder pension with Scottish Widows (they are internal funds which are not offered cheaper on their personal pension). The funds are basic but suitable for an inexperienced and low knowledge investor. They are never going to set the world on fire. They are not designed to be anything other than basic and simple and middle of the road. Whilst stakeholder pensions are now a niche offering, it would not be the best option for you. It wasnt the best in 2009 either. However, it depends on how you bought it. If you bought from Lloyds, then its about right for them. If you bought it yourself then its your own research that is an issue. if you bought it via an IFA then you should perhaps be talking to them as what you have told us suggests you could have had much better.

The two funds have different risk profiles. So, it is strange to see them held together. Usually it would be one or the other. Your expectations dont seem to be aligned to the funds. So, more discussion points there.

Sounds like it could be doing better if transferred to another provider, based on the direction your comments are leaning.

Only if you understand what is classed as better. There is absolutely nothing wrong with what you have. Yes, there are better but there are worse. If you dont understand the pros and cons of the various options then you wont know what is better or worse.