Loft conversion

mossley1968

Hi


I'd be really grateful for any advice. I have a terraced house which was built in 1904, when it was built, the attic was built as a room, so its own staircase etc. I am one of ten houses in a longer row of terraces that were all built straight into the attic and so all the 10 houses have the additional room in the attic whereas the rest of the other terraces don't.


Several houses like mine have sold recently, and all have been sold as 4 bedroomed homes. I have just put my house up for sale and on the first day of viewings had an offer of the asking price, but the buyers are pressing me as to whether it is a 3 or 4 bedroomed house. I have explained that when I bought the house (in 2002) the surveyors report stipulated it was a 4 bedroomed home and that a number of terraces identical to mine in the street have recently all sold as 4 bedroomed homes too.


What I am worried about is that in 2007 I put the house on the market and had a buyer but when they had a survey of the property completed, their surveyor said it was only a 3 bedroomed property as it didn't meet planning regs and consequently the buyers pulled out.


So my question is can you apply building regulations retrospectively, if it was built originally in 1904? It's a large room with good head height, electricity etc but only one velux window, I'm just worried I'll lose a sale again and yet the other homes are identical to mine that have sold successfully as 4 bedroomed, there just doesn't appear to be any consistency if one surveyor classes the building as 4 bedroomed and another classes it as 3.


Many thanks for reading this and hopefully giving me some much needed advice.


Colin

AnotherJoe

There's no consistency because there's no actual legal definition. Does the loft room have a door? I know that can be a test but it is down to the opinion of a surveyor so you'll have to hope you'll find a buyer who uses a lender who uses a surveyor who defines it as 4 bedroom.

I dont know what building regs were violated to make it not a bedroom, is there any chance you can fix that or is that not practical?

Davesnave

I note that in your title you have called it a conversion, although the text says otherwise. Choose your words carefully when speaking about this.

Irrespective of the regs, which cannot be applied retrospectively, is there a suitable means of escape in the event of a fire, and is there a door to prevent early ingress of smoke?

This is, frankly, the most important consideration.

Kynthia

Surely if it met building regs at the time it was built the its legally a room. Buyers need to decide whether it's safe to use as a bedroom or if it could be made to be.

davidmcn

Kynthia wrote: »

Surely if it met building regs at the time it was built the its legally a room.

There were no building regs at the time it was built. So it is as non-compliant as the rest of the house.

The problem I've seen before is over-cautious surveyors who aren't sure whether (or when) a loft has been converted, so they paste in their usual caveat about checking for consents.

Hoploz

You can't retrospectively get approval, because this would mean meeting standards when the loft room was built .... and they didn't issue certificates for completion in 1904!

This room, just like the rest of the house, and indeed most houses in the country, will not meet current building standards.

If you are concerned about safety then have a read of current building regulations and you might want to make a few changes, eg wired-in smoke alarms, fire escape hinges on any modern windows, ensuring ceiling coverings are fire-retardant, increase the insulation and increase the ventilation. You can't do anything about the actual building standards unless you tear the house to pieces.

Details can be found here:
https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200135/approved_documents

Your solution to this is to gather some evidence that it is not actually a 'conversion' but was built like this originally. Perhaps old historical photos showing the windows, archived estate agent sales particulars of your house or the other similar ones, old planning drawings for any changes made since which show the room already existed etc.

eddddy

mossley1968 wrote: »

I am one of ten houses in a longer row of terraces that were all built straight into the attic and so all the 10 houses have the additional room in the attic whereas the rest of the other terraces don't.

When the valuer visits, it's worth explaining to them...

When you look at comparables, you need to bear in mind that it's only this terrace of 10 houses that had a 4th bedroom originally built in the eaves. The other similar looking terraces didn't.

And don't talk about a 'loft conversion' - that's likely to confuse people. From what you say, there is no conversion, it's an original bedroom.

david1951

A similar thing happened to me recently, although I was buying. My surveyor (a local, recommended guy) stated in the report that it was clearly an original room. This was based on a few reasons, but mainly the structure of the walls (lathe and plaster) matching the materials used in the area at the time (1860). I requested that he state this in writing, which he was happy to. This got my solicitor off my back about it at least.


Other surveyors might have erred on the side of caution and this may be why the previous sale fell through.


If it happens again I would get in touch with a local surveyor and see if they can confirm in writing that it is an original room. You can then give this info to any potential buyers.

Kynthia

davidmcn wrote: »

There were no building regs at the time it was built. So it is as non-compliant as the rest of the house.

The problem I've seen before is over-cautious surveyors who aren't sure whether (or when) a loft has been converted, so they paste in their usual caveat about checking for consents.

It can't be non-compliant if there were no regs to comply with.

The thing is to prepare for the surveyor with evidence that it's not a non-compliant conversion but an original room.

phoebe1989seb

eddddy wrote: »

When the valuer visits, it's worth explaining to them...

When you look at comparables, you need to bear in mind that it's only this terrace of 10 houses that had a 4th bedroom originally built in the eaves. The other similar looking terraces didn't.

And don't talk about a 'loft conversion' - that's likely to confuse people. From what you say, there is no conversion, it's an original bedroom.

What he said ^

We sold a Georgian thatched house - the only one like it in our village - in 2014. Two of the five bedrooms were in the attic (along with a small 'office' space) and they had been this way for about 100 years. Or at least they had according to the PO! There were five windows in the whole attic space - old single-glazed casements that we did not replace when we had the front elevation fitted with hardwood DG sashes - an old door at the foot of the very steep stairs and poor head height in parts. We had fitted hard wired smoke alarms as part of a complete rewire. Although the attic rooms had mainly their original 200+ year old (riddled with historic worm hole ) beams, many of the other timbers, including the floors had been replaced by the PO.

Our buyers - who had three kids and wanted/needed to use those attic rooms as bedrooms - never questioned the history of the space, although we did make a point of explaining when we showed them round that they had been like that for as long as anyone could remember. Neither did their surveyor (full structural), solicitor or lender draw any attention to the matter.

I agree that in your situation, OP you should be careful to explain that this is not a *conversion* per se, but original to the house......and don't assume a surveyor will automatically know - when selling another house the surveyor described it as being built in the 1930s. It was a Tudor building!

mossley1968

Thank you for the advice everyone that's very helpful and of course you are right, I should not be mentioning the word loft conversion as it was never converted it was just built as a room.


I'm feeling more hopeful now that there won't be an issue this time - fingers crossed.


Colin