Parking Ticket @ Fistral beach. no time given to apeal or pay.

Ivor_Pecheque

Hi Stacey.

Sorry you've had such a bad experience in our wonderful town . Fistral is hard enough to navigate, even if you are able bodied.

I took this video in October, which is relatively quiet. Gawd only knows how things were in April... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swJ_elscsJM&feature=youtu.be

Feel free to use it if it helps.

Follow the advice on here. Easy for me to say "don't worry" but this will get solved for you.

Don't let them intimidate you :-)

fisherjim

The scumbags at Smart could not get any lower, to knowingly victimise Stacey like this is despicable, and they quite obviously know what they are doing from what Stacey has said.

I hope that The Prankster picks up on this one!

Ivor_Pecheque

PS would you mind if I posted your pictures locally Stacey ?

There is a lot of bad feeling in these parts about this sort of thing.

Ivor_Pecheque

PPS if it does come to having to paying up, already two people in the town have said they'd chip in :-)
We hate them as much as you.

Stacey81

hello coupon mod


thank you lots for all you helps I is lots lots grateful for all your helps.


I going to look up the stuff you say look up today and work on finish appeal.


I have try get me husband and carer here same time to do video no always easy to do but think can do it Wed. if no I has student who come help me wed who can help me do it.


I did get one thing wrong but I not did mean get it wrong it no was 3 men that help me was 2 men and 1 lady. was my husband and a man and lady from shop get me out sand. they had get wood and all sort try dig me out. this no be bad me get it wrong?


I going go work hards find out bout NTK and no keeper liability now. after me write others her say thank you.


I am realy really thankfol for all you help coupn mod

Stacey81

hello ralph
I going do every thing coupn say she helpin me LOTS
everyone helpin me


hello fisher jim
I hope prankster is nice like everyone else here


hello ivor
I tryin hard no let it scare me and ralp and coupon help by tell me no bad people come me door.
I was say me carer this morning when they get me dress that maybe me shoul go bak hav ice cream on beach
just so me can say me do its an they no gos scare me ways.
you can use me pic ans me sure lady an man from shop will remebar havin get me out sand
I was lots so excited see beach and chair me could go on sand with I get stuck.


the me at lands end it was real cold that day
hxxp://i1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah85/staceygreen1981staceyk81/me%20at%20lands%20end_zps6wzhucvz.jpg


that me on moors in devon
hxxp://i1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah85/staceygreen1981staceyk81/WP_20150114_05_01_18_Pro_zpsbygyvesg.jpg


that me with me goose friend at river cam in Cambridge he run at anyone who
go near me he real funny he protect me when me go see him
hxxp://i1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah85/staceygreen1981staceyk81/13051576_1034171689993593_6662784647234262425_n_zpsl53a3hcc.jpg


I liked you video it was nice see beach gain. when we go was no as busy but no disabled parkin free we park where you can
small blue van park with white thing on roof at bout 3.04 in you video


thank you everyone for all be helpful and make me not feel scared I now go do work and find all stuff so me can do good appeal.
I go learn bout NTK an no keeper liability now.


thank you again everyone
:A

Ivor_Pecheque

Thanks Stacey.

3 people now offered to chip in if you do have to pay (which I doubt).

Stacey81

I not finish yet I have stop for today as I getting real tired now and I think my dragon talker is confussed cuase its typing things I not even say now haha


but here what I has so far. I find bit for number 3 lack grace perid in BPA COC that related to Disabled people so I added that I no sure if OK or not.


for number 4 I call equality commison people who help me find the right parts law to quote, no sure if should put in equality law or not but I real not can get dragon to recongnise me tryin say Inperticuler so I had spell it but It spell badly.


dragon is program that type for me on me computer in word when do big document like on below so I not write so bad.


I think I get NKL right? for point 1.
no 5, 6 and 7 I under stand some but no all that so it hard make in own words


number 8 I need work on I struggling with that but I will rest now today and try again more tomorrow. I will get it I nowww I can do its.


please say if I need change any thing I do so far or take anythink out


one thing I keep think about that real bug me is on sign they show pic of CCTV sign that anyone with learning disabilitys that use makentosh or any form or symbol recognistion to talk or communicate and it no just disabled people who use symbols to communicate able body people do to, like when drive have stop signs etc.


what I tryin say is on sugn is CCTV symbol but they write me say there is NO CCTV. so why they put signs up show there is CCTV. maybe no count but it bug me. cause if had CCTV they see I not did stay I just get out get stuck in sand and go again.

---

On (DATE BLOCKED OUT) I came home from my holiday in Southwest to find a Parking Charge Notice from Smart parking. Dated (DATE BLOCKED OUT). I appealed to Smart parking who rejected my appeal on (DATE BLOCKED OUT). I am appealing as the named keeper of this Motability vehicle, with licence plate number (NUMBER BLOCKED OUT). I dispute that I am liable for the alleged parking charge. I wish to appeal against the charge on the following grounds:-

• No keeper liability
• No driver liability
• Lack of Grace Periods
• Breach of the Equality Act 2010
• No 'legitimate interest' or 'commercial justification'
• This IS (unlike in the Beavis case) an unfair penalty.
• No contract accepted; unlike in the Beavis case.
• No landowner authority

1:- No Keeper Liability


Schedule 4 of the freedom of information act, Para 9 states that the Notice to Keeper must state the following.


9(1)A notice which is to be relied on as a notice to keeper for the purposes of paragraph 6(1)(b) is given in accordance with this paragraph if the following requirements are met.


(2)The notice must—


(a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;


(b)inform the keeper that the driver is required to pay parking charges in respect of the specified period of parking and that the parking charges have not been paid in full;


(c)describe the parking charges due from the driver as at the end of that period, the circumstances in which the requirement to pay them arose (including the means by which the requirement was brought to the attention of drivers) and the other facts that made them payable;


(d)specify the total amount of those parking charges that are unpaid, as at a time which is—


(e)state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper—


(f)warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given—


(g)inform the keeper of any discount offered for prompt payment and the arrangements for the resolution of disputes or complaints that are available;


(h)identify the creditor and specify how and to whom payment or notification to the creditor may be made;


Smart Parking failed to inform me as keeper of this Motability vehicle that the Driver was responsible for paying. They also Failed to inform me of the facts of which the circumstances in which the requirement to pay them arose and the other facts that made them payable and a breakdown of how the charge become so much.


Smart parking also failed to inform me as Keeper that they do not know who the driver was and how to make contact with the driver.


2:- No driver liability


The is no Driver liability because the driver has not been identified and I am unable to drive myself, due to epilepsy and side effects of my disability, Degenerative neuro muscle disease, causing lack of muscle control, poor eye sight and many other symptoms relating to my disability that make it impossible for me to drive (I use a wheelchair). I am appealing as the named keeper of this Motability vehicle and cannot be held liable.





3:- Lack of Grace Periods


Section 13 of the British Parking Association code of practise, states


13 Grace Periods


13.1 Your approach to parking management must allow a driver who enters your car park but decides not to park, to leave the car park within a reasonable period without having their vehicle issued with a parking charge notice.


13.2 You should allow the driver a reasonable ‘grace period’ in which to decide if they are going to stay or go. If the driver is on your land without permission you should still allow them a grace period to reach your signs and leave before you take enforcement action.


Section 16 of the British Parking Association code of practise, states


16 Disabled Motorists.


16.1 The equality act 2010 says that providers of services to the public must make ’reasonable adjustments’ to remove barriers which may discriminate against disabled people.


16.2 ‘reasonable adjustments’ to prevent discrimination are likely to include larger ‘disabled’ parking spaces near to the entrance or amenities for disabled people whose mobility is impaired. It also could include lowered payment machines and other ways to pay if payment is required: for example paying by phone. You and your staff also need to realise that some disabled people may take a long time to get to the payment machines.


Grace periods must be 'reasonable' given the circumstances of the case and are not set in stone, and clearly a wheelchair stuck in sand, which had to be freed then safely clamped back into the vehicle and all passengers secured safely, would take much longer than ten minutes. It took longer than 10 minutes just to arrive, find a space (it is busy at the beach), stop, once unclamped and escorted out of the van, look for the P&D machine read the signs and look for change! But then I got stuck in the sand in the effort of trying to find a shop with change. It took 3 people to rescue me in my wheelchair from the sand I was stuck in near the P&D machine, then I decided I just go home because I hurt me foot when got stuck in the sand and it scared me, so we decided not to stay. Another ten minutes was taken to clamp the wheelchair back and leave. I would also like to point out there was no phone to pay option as the signs said this option was currently unavailable. (See point below on the Equality Act 2010, my legal right to a reasonable adjustment of time as a disabled passenger).




4:- Breach of the Equality Act 2010


Section 20 of the Equality Act 2010, states


Section 20, Duty to make adjustments


Inperticuler I bring your attention to para 1-5, reminding you what the 3 requirements are to the act imposing a duty to make reasonable Adjustments for persons with disabilities.


(1)Where this Act imposes a duty to make reasonable adjustments on a person, this section, sections 21 and 22 and the applicable Schedule apply; and for those purposes, a person on whom the duty is imposed is referred to as A.


(2)The duty comprises the following three requirements.


(3)The first requirement is a requirement, where a provision, criterion or practice of A's puts a disabled person at a substantial disadvantage in relation to a relevant matter in comparison with persons who are not disabled, to take such steps as it is reasonable to have to take to avoid the disadvantage.


(4)The second requirement is a requirement, where a physical feature puts a disabled person at a substantial disadvantage in relation to a relevant matter in comparison with persons who are not disabled, to take such steps as it is reasonable to have to take to avoid the disadvantage.


(5)The third requirement is a requirement, where a disabled person would, but for the provision of an auxiliary aid, be put at a substantial disadvantage in relation to a relevant matter in comparison with persons who are not disabled, to take such steps as it is reasonable to have to take to provide the auxiliary aid.


I also bring your attention to Para 7, Reminding you that it is unlawful to put the cost of or lack of adaptions/reasonable adjustments on a disabled person.


(7)A person (A) who is subject to a duty to make reasonable adjustments is not (subject to express provision to the contrary) entitled to require a disabled person, in relation to whom A is required to comply with the duty, to pay to any extent A's costs of complying with the duty.


I also bring your attention to Para 9, Which States barriers should be removed or alternative options should be available for persons with Disabilities.


(9)In relation to the second requirement, a reference in this section or an applicable Schedule to avoiding a substantial disadvantage includes a reference to—


(a)removing the physical feature in question,


(b)altering it, or


(c)providing a reasonable means of avoiding it.



I believe that not only are Smart parking in breach of the Equality Act 2010, but they are also Discriminating against me, for reasons relating to my disability. No reasonable adjustment made to the Grace period normally offered to able bodied visitors. Clearly more time was needed to load & unload a wheelchair in and out of a van, using a clamping system to secure the wheelchair safely. Time was needed to rescue my Wheelchair when it became stuck in sand trying to read the information and get to the shop for change for the machine as the phone payment system was not working as stated by the sign. After finding out the terms were not free for disabled people and the parking facility’s where not accessible another for my needs. I deciding not to accept any contract and leave. Smart are guilty of disability discrimination because in the appeal this was explained, so they 'knew or should have known' about the protected characteristics of a passenger and the issue of the wheelchair getting stuck in sand and the passenger injuring her foot and deciding not to stay after all. The EA is not guidance, it is the applicable law and it is a statutory DUTY in law, that Service Providers in customer-facing environments MUST make reasonable adjustments to suit disability need. And this is not restricted to merely bunging in some disabled bays - time is a factor requiring reasonable adjustments too


5:- No 'legitimate interest' or 'commercial justification'


No 'legitimate interest' or 'commercial justification' can be reasonably argued, in a case involving clear disability discrimination. This series of events over a period of minutes does NOT attract any tariff, let alone £100 charge. Clearly this was one to cancel at the outset when Smart got the appeal. There is certainly no 'legitimate interest' shown - the charge being pursued under these circumstances is the very definition of 'unconscionable' and breaches the EA 2010. This PCN fails the test established in ParkingEye v Beavis where at 28 it was held:


''A damages clause may properly be justified by some other consideration than the desire to recover compensation for a breach. This must depend on whether the {parking firm} has a legitimate interest in performance extending beyond the prospect of pecuniary compensation flowing directly from the breach in question.''


Clearly, there is no legitimate interest in expecting a person with disability’s, with an injury - and their carer, grappling with a wheelchair - to 'perform' the task of leaving as quickly as an able-bodied person hopping back into their car and driving out.




6:- This IS (unlike in the Beavis case) an unfair penalty.


This IS (unlike in the Beavis case) an unfair penalty. At the Supreme Court it was held at 107:


''In our opinion the term imposing the £85 charge was not unfair. The term does not exclude any right which the consumer may be said to enjoy under the general law or by statute''


But here, it does 'exclude the right' the consumer (Myself) enjoys under the applicable statute (the EA) to a 'reasonable adjustment' of Grace Period time.


7:- No contract accepted; unlike in the Beavis case.


No contract accepted; unlike in the Beavis case, the occupants of the car had no opportunity to understand what they would later be held to have 'agreed'. The vehicle left as soon as possible after deciding NOT to stay and the fact the vehicle took a few minutes longer to leave than one with able bodied passengers is shown by the video evidence of how long it takes merely to clamp the wheelchair back in place safely. This was NOT an unreasonable time taken to leave and does not render the occupants of the car liable to pay a tariff for the time taken, which was not parking time but 'loading of wheelchair' time.


8:- No landowner authority
STILL working on this bit I stuck at moment.

Ralph-y

well done so far .... you should be proud .....

CM will be along shortly to check out the above ..... so have a well earned rest .......

"what I tryin say is on sugn is CCTV symbol but they write me say there is NO CCTV. so why they put signs up show there is CCTV. maybe no count but it bug me. cause if had CCTV they see I not did stay I just get out get stuck in sand and go again."

I think you may well be mixing up CCTV and ANPR

(auto number plate recognition)

easy mistake to make



keep it up and

good luck

Ralph:cool:

Ivor_Pecheque

Thanks for the pics Stacey. You've done well, as Ralph says, have a chill xx