PIP Award and Mandatory Reconsideration

bujin

As a neighbour of mine doesn't have access to a computer she has asked if I could find out something for her, I suggested here because she'd be more likely to get a quick answer.
So, basically she has been on DLA both components for years and years, she's had the DWP letter following atos face to face assessment,for her transfer to PIP. She's now been awarded Enhanced Rate Moving Around and standard for Daily Living. She has a motability car, which she leases. However, she isn't happy with the standard rate for daily living activities because it seems (according to her) they have not taken into consideration the aspects of "reliability" for the Cooking and preparing a simple meal activity, so she feels she should Appeal the decision.

The reason she's concerned though is that if she asks for an MR/Appeal, it will affect her payments. Her DLA which will cease on the 5th of July and PIP will commence from the 6th. If she asks for the MR will the payments for PIP carry on until a decision has been made? She's concerned that if her DLA stops on July 5th her PIP will be suspended until a new decision or decision upheld occurs? She's worried if this does happen because of the Motability situation.

Can anyone tell her if her PIP payments would continue in their current rate even during MR, or are they suspended and her DLA stopped or extended? Would really appreciate any help here, thanks in anticipation.

Alice_Holt

Her PIP payments will continue.

However, she needs to think very carefully about the decision to appeal.
The DWP will look at her whole award, not just the disputed points.
On MR/Appeal her award could remain the same, increase or be decreased.
I have seen awards be decreased.

At the very least she needs specialist advice before deciding.
Currently her Motablility vehicle is kept, and her Daily Living (DL) award opens the door for someone to claim carers allowance / or her to claim SDP on her ESa (if she lives alone) and all other conditions are met.

The increase between enchanced DL and standard is c.£27. Unless she is absolutely sure the DL scores should total 12 or more (and that she could persuade a tribunal of this, and has the relevant medical evidence), an MR/Appeal could be very stressful for her with a lot at stake.

bujin

Thanks for this info. I think I'll let her see your answer and let her respond herself. So will be back. Thanks again.

bujin

Hello. Thank you for your reply. I appreciate your comments about the fact that it's possible to get a new decision and one which may go against the positive decision I already have. I know it's a possibility and a risk I'll have to take. I believe it is a small chance though and I've yet to actually meet anyone that that has happened to, though I'm not doubting what you say.

After a long think about whether to appeal, I've decided to ask for an MR and the reasons for that are these. First is that the decision I have been given for the Daily Living Activity of Preparing and Cooking a Meal and Taking Nutrition, is not right. Two is that if I allow this to go by without challenging the decision then the next time I'm assessed, I'm going to have even less chance of gettiing it again, if I haven't challenged it this time.
I only got 2 points for the Preparing and Cooking a simple meal and 0 for Taking Nutrition. I cannot prepare and cook a meal and haven't been able to for some time. My problems are with my hands but also with sitting and standing as well as general tiredness. Repeating actions is the main difficulty so whilst I may be able perform something once I cannot repeat things. It would be unsafe for me to prepare/cook etc.
The assessor (who was a paramedic and had a job to pronounce any of my conditions) asked me to squeeze his finger with my forefinger and thumb and he decided I had good "hand"grip, despite a leading Consultant and specialist physios who specialise in hands saying the complete opposite.

I'm happy to do this on my own, I've been reliant on benefits since having to give up my job as midwife and feel confident in knowing what the law says and how it applies to the PIP components. I know you can never be certain, but I believe that a Tribunal would find in my favour, for the very reason that they would ensure that the law has been applied.

Anyway my main concern was whether it would affect my current award for PIP, so thanks for that confirmation.

Alice_Holt

There are a couple of useful appeal guides here:
http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip/pip-appeals
http://www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/how-win-pip-appeal

The B & W site is worth subscribing to. Cost is c.£20.

How many DL points were you awarded?

Also this may be helpful:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/519147/pip-assessment-guide.pdf

Pages 92-114.

kingfisherblue

Post 1 says this is about your neighbour. Post 4 is about you.


Why do people do this? Why not say it is about themselves in the first place? Is there a reason? I can't think of one.

paragon909

kingfisherblue wrote: »

Post 1 says this is about your neighbour. Post 4 is about you.


Why do people do this? Why not say it is about themselves in the first place? Is there a reason? I can't think of one.

What the hell does it matter to you who it is. I see you didn't point out post 3 where the OP said their neighbour would respond themselves....

What point you trying to make, Stop trying to be a wise guy.

bujin

The reason I didn't say it was about me was because its about my neighbour. As mentioned I thought it would be better if she explained things for herself rather than me trying to remember what she said.

Thanks Alice. I'll check out the links and print some stuff off. Your helps much appreciated.

bujin

Follow up to your question Alice, she got 8 points, 2 points for each activity of the following activities, washing,bathing, toileting,dressing,preparing and cooking a meal.
When she was asked if she used adapted cutlery, she said yes, but when she went to show the assessor the cutlery, he said he didn't need to see it, that he wasn't the police and wasn't there to check up on her!!!! He then told her he had written that she needed food cut up for her because he could see the problems with her hands, which she agreed with, yet she wasn't given 2 points for that.

She has requested the assessor's report, so she can look through it and check for accuracy. She says that she recorded the assessment on her phone, because her memory isn't always the best, but I guess this may come in useful if there are any discrepancies between what was discussed and what was actually written. However, she tells me that the Tribunal don't have to accept the audio recording, but as it's only for her personal use, it will simply help her transcribe what was said. Anyone know if she's right there. I thought you had to tell them you were recording and provide them with a copy, but I'm not an expert obviously.

atrixblue.-MFR-.

bujin wrote: »

Follow up to your question Alice, she got 8 points, 2 points for each activity of the following activities, washing,bathing, toileting,dressing,preparing and cooking a meal.
When she was asked if she used adapted cutlery, she said yes, but when she went to show the assessor the cutlery, he said he didn't need to see it, that he wasn't the police and wasn't there to check up on her!!!! He then told her he had written that she needed food cut up for her because he could see the problems with her hands, which she agreed with, yet she wasn't given 2 points for that.

She has requested the assessor's report, so she can look through it and check for accuracy. She says that she recorded the assessment on her phone, because her memory isn't always the best, but I guess this may come in useful if there are any discrepancies between what was discussed and what was actually written. However, she tells me that the Tribunal don't have to accept the audio recording, but as it's only for her personal use, it will simply help her transcribe what was said. Anyone know if she's right there. I thought you had to tell them you were recording and provide them with a copy, but I'm not an expert obviously.

The Dwp has their own guidance surrounding recordings this is not the law though and certainly not implicit terms and conditions of claiming a benefit.


http://www.legalsecretaryjournal.com/?q=node/541


This article explains it simply and effectively without going through the legal jargon.


In essence a audio recording is not expressly prohibited form use in the court because it was recorded secretly.


You must do research on this though and get advice surrounding it to be able to prevent a moral judgment on the recorded evidence instead of being a lawful one.


A tribunal will allow it, although how much attention and credit they apply to it would be at their discretion.
If the recording is fundamental to the case such as a I said this and the assessor says opposite, and this is recorded, then its allowed. its naughty and some see it as immoral but the law is not specific, and thus nothing recorded secretly is inadmissible in civil or a tribunal court.

Alice_Holt

bujin wrote: »

She says that she recorded the assessment on her phone......However, she tells me that the Tribunal don't have to accept the audio recording, but as it's only for her personal use, it will simply help her transcribe what was said. Anyone know if she's right there. I thought you had to tell them you were recording and provide them with a copy, but I'm not an expert obviously.

Atrixblue and myself have a different opinion on covert recordings of DWP assessments.

This is from CPAG (relating to ESa assessments):

"The DWP has produced a FAQ on the audio recording of Employment and Support Allowance (ESA) Work Capability Assessments

The FAQ states that:

You do not have a legal right to have your face-to-face assessment recorded but all requests will be accommodated where possible.
You should always request audio recording in advance.
You must sign a consent form.
If recording equipment is not available you may have to wait longer than normal for their face-to-face assessment. Although this may slow down the benefit process it will not effect your entitlement to benefit.
You can request to have a home based assessment recorded.
You may be allowed to use your own recording equipment providing you give DWP/Atos notice and it meets DWP/Atos Healthcare requirements. This includes providing two copies of the recording in such a way to ensure that the recording has not been tampered with and is a reliable and accurate record of the assessment.
Approved recording media are standard CD and audio tapes only. Video recording of assessments is not permitted.
If you are caught making a secret recording your assessment will be terminated..."

http://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news/2013/june/audio-recording-wca-assessments

Also note that whilst you can ask for an authorised recording to be considered as evidence at a tribunal, "the acceptance of the recording as evidence is at the discretion of the Tribunal".
A tribunal would be very unlikely to regard a covert recording as reliable evidence, since such a recording could be tampered with.

The DWP's official guidance on audio recording re ESa & PIP assesments reflect four main concerns:
The confidentiality of every other claimant at the assessment;
DWP staff's rights under the Data Protection Act 1998;
Recordings made on non-evidential grade equipment can be tampered with so cannot be treated as a definitive record;
Excerpts of recordings have been posted online in circumstances the DWP believes are inappropriate.

ATOS website : http://www.atoshealthcare.com/pip/faq_view/recording_my_consultation

Government response to F of I request : https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/203612/foi-1767-2013.pdf