PCN - Armtrac Security!

Kpros

Hi Guys,

I took all of the considerable advice that you all kindly put together for me (thank you) and stuck to the template.

I have now had a response from Armtrac - link below (I have left out the photo evidence and standardised ways to pay stuff, I'll detail what I've left out below).

My intention is to now send the other template with the addition of a couple of lines, I just want to make sure that this is still valid in the present year as I know some of these change with law changes and if this appropriate based on the response that I have received? I have copy and pasted below:

Link to their letter to me (discluding an alleged email to Armtrac from Royal Mail stating the address is legal, copy of original PCN, a form to add the drivers details which includes a statement of truth, photos of the vehicle parked and a picture of the sign:

http://imgur.com/a/96xfK

My reply letter using template:

Armtrac Security Services
P.O BOX 154
Penzance
TR20 9WD

Ref PCN xxxxxx

Friday 1st July, 2016

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to your recent letter dated 24th July which was a reply to my letter to you dated 4th June.

You have been incredibly dismissive in your letter and ignored a number of key points that I have raised in my response letter to you.

As I have already mentioned I did not receive any previous letters aside from the last one of which I have replied to and have fully cooperated with you. The last letter was the very first that I had received from you and my first knowledge of this. I will not repeat this again.

Also (and as previously mentioned) I do not know who was driving my vehicle that day and was out of the area. There are a number of potential drivers who had consented access to my vehicle at this time however I do not have precise information and/or contact details for these as stated in my first letter.

I am not ignoring your charge for a purported parking infraction. As this is purely a charge, issued under an alleged contract and the driver has not been identified I require the following information so that I can make an informed decision:

1. Who is the party that contracted with your company? I require their contact details.

2. What is the full legal identity of the landowner?

3. As you have confirmed that are not the landowner please provide a contemporaneous and unredacted copy of your contract with the landholder to demonstrate that you have their authority.

4. Is your charge based on damages for breach of contract? Please answer yes or no.

5. If the charge is based on damages for breach of contract please provide your justification of this sum.

6. Is your charge based on a contractually agreed sum for the provision of parking? Please answer yes or no.

7. If the charge is based on a contractually agreed sum for the provision of parking please provide a valid VAT invoice for this 'service'.

8. Please provide a copy of the signs that you can evidence were on site and which you contend formed a contract with the driver on that occasion, as well as all photographs taken of this vehicle.

If you believe you have a cause of action, send a Letter before Claim within the next 21 days and I will take advice and will respond. However, in my opinion there is a better alternative than legal proceedings, namely that we utilise the services of a completely independent ADR service suited to parking charges. This does not include the IAS appeal service - which lacks any transparency and possibly any independence from the IPC - unlike the alternative offered by the British Parking Association, POPLA, who are transparent and have been shown to be independent. I will present them with my confirming my whereabouts which will rubbish any accusations of me being the ‘driver’ during the alleged times.

Do not send any debt collector letters and do not try to add any costs or surcharges. You are not permitted to even consider ‘other hands for collection’ before a court hearing. I will not respond to such contact and to involve another firm would be a failure to mitigate your costs which are not my liability because the POFA 2012 can only potentially hold a registered keeper liable if certain provisions have been met and even then, the 'amount of the parking charge' is the only amount pursuable.

Regards

xxxxx xxxxxxxxx
Registered Keeper


Thanks for your support

Damien

Umkomaas

Not sure what you're hoping to achieve by sending this. They've said in their letter to you that some 108 days have elapsed since the ticket (more now) and won't go any further on it.

Even if they allowed you to appeal and provided access to the IAS, any appeal from you would be doomed and the PPC may be buoyed by that 'win' against you and chance their arm at court.

Personally, I'd wait to see what their next move is (probably meaningless debt collector letters) and go from there. Little point in any further communication with them now.

Kpros

Hi Umkomaas,

I wasn't looking to achieve anything, I just assumed the rule of thumb was to keep replying to acknowledge their letter but thanks for the advice, I will await their next move

Herzlos

Nah, you just want to do enough to look reasonable to a court if it ever got there. There's no point repeating yourself to these people, and they've stated that they regard the appeals process closed. You take option 3; let them pass it to debt collectors, who you can completely ignore.

Coupon-mad

No, just stop. Collect and keep all letters but stop.

No point engaging with an IPC firm, beyond one challenge so as to look reasonable in case they ever decide to take the matter to a small claim bunfight. In which case, update this thread then. We will help.

No need to do ANYTHING other than that and anyone trying IAS appeal is 99% certainly wasting their time.

Captain_Krunch

Kpros wrote: »

Link to their letter to me (discluding an alleged email to Armtrac from Royal Mail stating the address is legal, copy of original PCN, http://imgur.com/a/96xfK

If its the email I've seen it only confirms the PO Box number is correct. The email from the Post Office doesn't say anything about the postcode because armtrac never asked the Post Office to confirm the post code.

Kpros

Hi Guys,

Thanks so much for all of this support. Some really key information here and I will take the unanimous advice and send no further letters to them and see if they ever take us to court...option 3 has been selected!

Captain Krunch -yes its that same email with the sender details blanked out 'due to data protection'. As you've said it does not confirm the post code and my exact paragraph on my letter to them was purely about the postcode not existing, not address:

"In writing this letter I have also carried out a search of your postcode through 3 reputable companies (as well as speaking with the Royal Mail of which I have the call recording) and your postcode does not exist. This could be seen as fraud (this is not a misprint as I have been made aware that you have been using this postcode for a number of years)."

I will await further news! Again, thank you all so much for your continued advice and support.

Kpros

Hi All,

Just a quick update...

I took all of your advice and did not reply to them. Since their last letter I have heard nothing from them. I can't be sure but it looks like they've given up and moved on to the next one.

Thanks for all of the help and support, you've saved me money and helped me avoid becoming a victim of circumstance.

Damien

Umkomaas

Go check on their website and act as if you're going to actually pay the £100 parking charge (but obviously don't press the 'Pay Now' button!). This should give you access to your charge - if it's been cancelled, it should say so. If it's still 'live', don't fall asleep on it; be ready to receive further harassment, whether next week, next month, or next year - further down the line.

lee01

hi , im in the same boat as kpros (damien) and its at the same place , i think i may need your help !!!! please !!!!