Makes my blood boil

Muscle750

uk1 wrote: »

I think many people in private sector DB schemes equally under value what it is that they have. A contributing factor is that many schemes may have stated an employee contribution and an employer contribution and members therefore overlook the enormous additional amounts that employers have had to subsequently add to reduce deficits. What may have been stated as say a 10% or 12% contribtion originally, may end up being considerably more perhaps as high as 30% or more .... it is just masked by the large capital contributions.

I estimate that after tax my own contribution was less than 5% than the total value of the fund I now "own". Many in the private sector haven't done as badly as they think when compared to the public sector. Not saying "better" but not as bad.

Jeff

I think you need to take stock abit more so you say the private sector arent doing badly and forget the employer contributions how about the public sector remember the private sector paying to theirs as well im afraid i find some comments on here in this post from public sector people somewhat "blowing your own trumpet" and that you feel we all should of realised what we were doing in doing our jobs careers etc This morning prime example in at 6 am left at 1pm all for single rate money not OT but normal hourly rate , plus im on call again tonight. This year we cant even afford to go on holiday. Plus im now in my mid 50s and im expected to roll round on the road recovering cars etc as it stands and working in the repair shop till i retire yet the fire brigade kick off and want their gold plate pensions early because they cant do their job till normal retiring age

uk1

Muscle750 wrote: »

I think you need to take stock abit more so you say the private sector arent doing badly and forget the employer contributions how about the public sector remember the private sector paying to theirs as well im afraid i find some comments on here in this post from public sector people somewhat "blowing your own trumpet" and that you feel we all should of realised what we were doing in doing our jobs careers etc This morning prime example in at 6 am left at 1pm all for single rate money not OT but normal hourly rate , plus im on call again tonight. This year we cant even afford to go on holiday. Plus im now in my mid 50s and im expected to roll round on the road recovering cars etc as it stands and working in the repair shop till i retire yet the fire brigade kick off and want their gold plate pensions early because they cant do their job till normal retiring age

To be completely honest, I've read your post five times and I still cannot work out what it has to do with my post, other than I "need to take stock abit".

Perhaps you could read my post again which made some observations about those pension scheme members in private sector defined benefits schemes - and have another go? I'm simply not making the links you ask of me.

My apologies.

Jeff

bigadaj

BobQ wrote: »

I have seen some analysis of civil service pay and one thing that came across was that the CS usually pays better than the market rate for those below average pay and they enjoy better pensions. The same is not true of those well above average pay, compensated to a large extent by the pension.

But as the value of the pension is reduced by the higher contribution rates and the lower pension benefits, this is changing. The civil service will increasingly find it difficult to attract capable engineers, scientists, project managers, computer scientists, analysts etc. Such specialists, in the private sector enjoy good pensions too. Similarly those managing large units in the CS get quite poorly paid compared with the private sector (the £150K plus people the OP moaned about) given the responsibilities they hold.

I am sure those earning below average pay will have little sympathy for them but over time the CS will either have to pay higher salaries directly or second people from the private sector at even higher rates.

Possibly, having just been made redundant and being an engineer/ scientist I'm keeping an open mind.

Salaries are probably a little lower in the public sector but pension and other benefits better and whilst there is wide variation then I would say on average the public sector package is slightly better.

It also depends how you view the quality of people that are being recruited. My last job involved a fair bit of involvement with board directors at a multi national subsidiary that would be ftse 250 listed if it were stand alone, and I can't say I was impressed with my interaction given presumably mid to high six figur salaries for most of them.

Wimbrel

I'm 55 now, joined the public sector at age 23 I was working for the first ten years of that in the care sector supporting people with learning disabilities, the pay was not great to say the least but I loved the work . I switched to the FE sector after that and eventually got outsourced and divested four years ago. I now work for a Community Interest Company supporting people who are experiencing and recovering from mental ill health. I've been fortunate that, though I'm not technically public sector any more, I have been able to continue paying into the LGPS pension scheme . I've turned down job offers in the past which had better salaries because the pension was a big consideration as was and is my belief in public service. However changes have been made and, on top of a five year pay freeze everything accrued from my 8% of salary contributions up to a certain point is frozen and protected under the old final salary scheme, anything after that point is on career average. The net result is a fall in my eventual pension..

My retirement age is 67 . If I make it that far I'll have been paying between 5 and 11% of my salary every month for 44 years by then. If anyone not in such a scheme had saved that amount of their salary each month it would have built up nicely too,

I get regular forecasts from the LGPS and I can assure you that I won't be rolling in wealth when I retire, especially as LGPS is contracted out of SERPS so my NI contributions won't net me a full state pension. However I hope to be able to retire on around half salary which isn't bad at all and have been able to plan ahead for retirement.

My husband recently got an offer from the pension scheme of a firm he worked for for 8 years in the 70's and 80's. They were looking to wind up the scheme, in return for taking benefits two years early, they offered a lump sum and an annuity which is more than a quarter of what my 44 years service is expected to produce; so evidently some private sector schemes are pretty good too.

It's not all "private sector pensions poor, public sector pensions gold plated".

And Public Sector is not shorthand for pen pusher. " Non job" or any of the other nonsense spouted by The Daily Mail

xylophone

as LGPS is contracted out of SERPS so my NI contributions won't net me a full state pension.

It is no longer contracted out https://www.yourpensionservice.org.uk/news/?id=2015/08/21/79649&news=882&page=pr&_




- have you obtained a new state pension forecast?

If your starting amount is less than a full new state pension (likely if you have been contracted out for many years), contributions made between now and state pension age could well increase it up to the full amount.

https://www.gov.uk/new-state-pension/how-its-calculated

"You can get more State Pension by adding more qualifying years to your National Insurance record after 5 April 2016. You can do this until you reach the full new State Pension amount or reach State Pension age - whichever is first.

Each qualifying year on your National Insurance record after 5 April 2016 will add about £4.45 a week to your new State Pension. The exact amount you get is calculated by dividing £155.65 by 35."

GunJack

Wimbrel wrote: »

I'm 55 now, joined the public sector at age 23 So you have 32 years of NI contributions, yes?

My retirement age is 67 . If I make it that far I'll have been paying between 5 and 11% of my salary every month for 44 years by then. If anyone not in such a scheme had saved that amount of their salary each month it would have built up nicely too,

I get regular forecasts from the LGPS and I can assure you that I won't be rolling in wealth when I retire,
remember, this will be in addition to your state pension and quite possibly due from aged 60 (or 65) so a bit before your SP

especially as LGPS is contracted out of SERPS so my NI contributions won't net me a full state pension. However I hope to be able to retire on around half salary which isn't bad at all and have been able to plan ahead for retirement.
Yes you will, as your starting amount for the new SP will be based on your 32 years of contributions already, along with a bit of SERPS/S2P for 1988-1997 (which will be in addition to your LGPS), so at most you should only need 9 years of NI starting with 2016/7.

And Public Sector is not shorthand for pen pusher. " Non job" or any of the other nonsense spouted by The Daily Mail
How true this is, and it's about time the general public realised it!!

Just a few observations on your situation... as someone else suggested above, get a state pension estimate, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised

Tromking

Muscle750 wrote: »

This morning prime example in at 6 am left at 1pm all for single rate money not OT but normal hourly rate , plus im on call again tonight. This year we cant even afford to go on holiday. Plus im now in my mid 50s and im expected to roll round on the road recovering cars etc as it stands and working in the repair shop till i retire yet the fire brigade kick off and want their gold plate pensions early because they cant do their job till normal retiring age

The problem with people in your predicament is that the Government has no ownership of your issues, other than having the minimal altruistic concern they have for all UK citizens of course.They obviously called on you when they needed public opinion on their side to force through public sector pension reform, but in reality they couldn't give a stuff about you and your woes. Hutton and the Cabinet Office played you like a cheap guitar I'm afraid.:rotfl:
In some public sector roles however there are real political ramifications if the job doesn't get done or performed properly. My own job was all over the news a week or so ago and highly embarrassing it was for the Government too. Consequently a month long overtime ban has the Government sat down with my Union on Tuesday with much enhanced overtime rates on the table. Oh, and there`s a real possibility that there`s going to be downward movement on my new retirement age also.

uk1

In today's Sunday Times:

The burden on the taxpayer of paying public sector pensions has increased by nearly £200bn in just 12 months.

The liability of final salary retirement schemes for NHS staff, police, teachers and other state workers rose by £190bn to £1.5 trillion in the 12 months to the end of March last year, according to official data.

The revelation throws into sharp relief the rising cost to the state of covering these commitments. Public sector workers — except for local government staff and university lecturers — are in unfunded schemes, which means their retirement benefits are paid out of general taxation.

The new figures — contained in the recently published government accounts — will add fuel to the official review of the state pension age started recently by the former CBI director-general John Cridland. By April 2028, the pension age will have risen to 67 for men and women, and Cridland’s study will explore whether this threshold should rise in line with rising life expectancy. The results of the review will be published next May.

One government adviser called the pension deficit a “ticking time bomb” and said the state pension age will have to go up faster than the government has forecast.


Experts have warned that people entering the workforce today may have to wait until their mid-70s before they can retire.

Some analysts say the burden of state sector pensions could be even greater than the reported figure.

“The government fiddles the numbers to understate the annual cost of new public sector pension promises by at least £10bn a year,” said John Ralfe, an independent pension consultant.

BobQ

bigadaj wrote: »

Possibly, having just been made redundant and being an engineer/ scientist I'm keeping an open mind.

Salaries are probably a little lower in the public sector but pension and other benefits better and whilst there is wide variation then I would say on average the public sector package is slightly better.

It also depends how you view the quality of people that are being recruited. My last job involved a fair bit of involvement with board directors at a multi national subsidiary that would be ftse 250 listed if it were stand alone, and I can't say I was impressed with my interaction given presumably mid to high six figur salaries for most of them.

My post was solely related to the Civil Service not the wider Public Sector. The analysis stated that those doing routine administrative jobs were paid well above market rate but that experienced professionals in specialist roles are less well paid than the market rates. While at these more senior levels you can point to public sector pensions (which are good) such specialists in the private sector get a good pension.

MPD

Muscle750 wrote: »

I think you need to take stock abit more so you say the private sector arent doing badly and forget the employer contributions how about the public sector remember the private sector paying to theirs as well im afraid i find some comments on here in this post from public sector people somewhat "blowing your own trumpet" and that you feel we all should of realised what we were doing in doing our jobs careers etc This morning prime example in at 6 am left at 1pm all for single rate money not OT but normal hourly rate , plus im on call again tonight. This year we cant even afford to go on holiday. Plus im now in my mid 50s and im expected to roll round on the road recovering cars etc as it stands and working in the repair shop till i retire yet the fire brigade kick off and want their gold plate pensions early because they cant do their job till normal retiring age

What is it you want Muscle750?

To tell us life is unfair? Yes it is. I felt that most keenly when a friend got a brand new sports car for his 21st birthday. I think I've done alright since due to hard work and luck. I must say that some of the public sector jobs I have done are far harder than anything I did in the private sector.

To complain about your pension circumstances? Your time would be better spent engaging with the many knowledgeable people on this forum to improve your position first.

To complain about your job? It is never too late to change direction. I have several times, mostly through having no other choice and it is tough but if you are prepared to work hard it is achievable. IMO this will be the norm in the future. BTW I haven't had anything other that flat rate overtime since the 90's and no overtime at all in the public sector.

To demand a race to the bottom in pension provision? That won't make a jot of difference to you in the long run. Reduce government sending by £10 billion. In 1500 years we may have paid off the government debt with this. There is almost no way this will improve your position.

This is an internet forum. If you state an opinion then someone will come and give you a contrary opinion in short order. Ask for help on financial matters and its a gold mine.