Indigo Parking Fine - when I had paid for a ticket!!

TheSpauser

Looking for advice on how best to approach this one. I've read the newbie stickies but feel my appeal situation is slightly different.

I parked in my local railway station. I've parked here 4 times previously with no problems. I pay using the number that is clearly sign posted on the front of the ticket machine, give the location code and pay with my debit card for 24 hours parking. The service is connectcashlessparking (please google as I couldn't attach link as a new user!).

As I said this service is clearly signposted, with Southern Railway's logo on the signage. There are also Indigo Parking signs and signs for their app as method of payment but these are not as clear as they are on the side of the ticket machine.

Got back to my car last night and had a fine on my drivers side window. It's clear to me now that the previous payment method has been superseded by Indigo. However surely these original signs should be replaced - I also should note the amount I paid is the same amount Indigo still charge now and is advertised on their parking rate signage.

I have pictures of the payment method signage with Southerns' logo on the ticket machine, I have a VAT receipt for the payment method I used as well as the VAT receipts for all the previous occasions I have used this payment method (as recently as February).

Sorry for the long post - just wanted to make the situation clear. Look forward to hearing your guys thoughts and advice.

Northlakes

Look up other indigo cases. Read and digest NEWBIES thread.
DON'T disclose driver identity.

Appeal with receipts to PPC. They should cancel but NEVER disclose driver and never use the word I always say 'the driver'.

TheSpauser

As I said I have read the newbie stickies and understand the "Keeper"/"Driver" point - just wanted advice as my case differs than a bog standard parking fine.

Umkomaas

As well as sending in the template appeal from the sticky to Indigo (with a 'please see the receipt for the payment for parking made by the driver) at the time point indicated, you should immediately complain to Southern Railway - as the driver - and ask they intervene. You paid exactly as their signage required. They are the car park owners, not Indigo!

TheSpauser

I do intend on using the very helpful appeal template - however I am struggling with how I can distance myself from being "The Driver" whilst mentioning that I bought a ticket.

Would the below suffice -

Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No. ....................

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car and I will complain to the landowner about the matter if it is not cancelled.

In this instance, the driver paid for 24 hours parking using the signposted payment method, as detailed in the attached photos and invoice. This payment signage clearly states the method of payment is valid and displays the landowner's logo.

Furthermore, I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers before they park.

Further, I understand you do not own the car park and you have given me no information about your policy with the landowner or on site businesses, to cancel such a charge. So please supply that policy as required under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013. I believe the driver may well be eligible for cancellation and you have omitted clear information about the process for complaints including a geographical address of the landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully,

Northlakes

The driver can never be assumed to be the keeper so it distances the person which is particularly important on railway land which isn't relevant land for POFA 2012.

On non relevant land such as this POFA 2012 doesn't apply but they can prosecute under bylaws so it's a different set of rules to other private car parks.

Umkomaas

That's ok, but you only send that off in the prescribed timescale highlighted in the newbies sticky, not before. But do get on with your complaint to the Train Operating Company (TOC) right now.

Get this knocked on the head ASAP by the TOC, but don't delay beyond the newbies timescale to send off the initial appeal if still awaiting a TOC response.

'I did', 'I parked', 'I paid' to be replaced with 'The driver did', 'The driver parked', 'The driver paid' etc, etc. Easy!

You also need to go through all your posts on this thread to edit out any relevant 'I's' and replace with 'The driver'. PPCs read these forums!

TheSpauser

Northlakes wrote: »

The driver can never be assumed to be the keeper so it distances the person which is particularly important on railway land which isn't relevant land for POFA 2012.

On non relevant land such as this POFA 2012 doesn't apply but they can prosecute under bylaws so it's a different set of rules to other private car parks.

Would this be the "Rail Byelaw 14"?

Northlakes

Don't worry about that. Your problem will not go that way. You should get a cancellation.

garrymile_2

I am in the exact same position. I parked in the new multi-storey car park in Haywards Heath Station car park, assuming that my car reg entered on the Southern Rail machine was valid, as it was when telephone parking. Signage was appallingly bad with only one for the entire level and none between me and the lobby.
I appealed to Indigo but they refused, so I appealed to POPLA, who also turned me down on the basis that the signage as submitted in evidence by Indigo was correct. Only problem was it was the old ground level car park with all the signs in place. I went back to POPLA but they refused to negotiate further, saying they are a one-step service.
I went back to Indigo about this but all they said was now had to cough up the full £100, instead of the £60 for 14 days, event though the BPA Code states it should be suspended while POPLA consider it.
Two actions to take - Google the BPA Code of Practice - I have identified at least 4 serious breaches and am going to fight this.
Also Google Thornton vs Shoe Lane Car Park. You will see a judgement by Lord Denning, Master of the Rolls, which makes very interesting reading as to the obligations of the car park operator.

Marktheshark

A PPC can not bring prosecution under railway bylaws as they are not in receipt of devolved powers of statutory instrument to enforce such laws.
the BTP police are, the BTP civil enforcement officers are, the PPC is not.
In either case the BTP or the civil enforcement/ community support officers would have to witnesses any alleged breech of these bylaws.

PPC just use this as a threat to go with all the other threats.