Insurance policy payouts?

Brighty

Hi all


My MIL passed recently.

There was a will leaving her half the house to her 2 kids, my wife and her brother.

Will was unsigned and with no previous will, the whole lot goes to her husband, my wifes step dad, who will now be, i assume, administrator of the estate. Kids get nothing

Before her death, she had told my wife that she had a small life policy (£4k was mentioned) that paid out to the 4 grandkids, our 2 and wifes brothers 2. As well as this, there was talk of another policy that would pay off the small mortgage.

On her death, no paperwork for either policy was found. A look at bank statements found some likely candidates and FIL was left to investigate.

Now, FIL is a funny so and so, very quiet, secretive type, man of few words is an understatement, funny around money too. We all get on, but not sure i'd trust him to 'do the right thing' where money is concerned.

A few days ago, he rang my wife and asked for her account number and sort code, no explanation why he wanted it, which is normal for him.

Yesterday, £1000 has appeared in both my wifes and her brothers account. We've no idea whether this is the missing life policy, in which case it seems too little, or if it's just a very kind gift. I doubt we'd get an explanation from him, so we've no idea, probably never will, lol.

My question is, would a life policy payable to 4 grandkids, pay out to the husband for him to distribute as he sees fit (give half to the kids, use the rest to pay off his car loan for instance) or should it only pay out to the kids?

Thanks

Brighty

HB58

I believe it depends on the terms of the policy and in whose name it was taken out.

poppystar

I assume that you have checked that the unsigned will is not just a copy of the will before signing and that a signed original does not exist at the solicitors/with whoever drew up the will?
I am executor for a friend and I have only a copy of the draft pre signature along with details of where the actual signed will is stored.

Yorkshireman99

poppystar wrote: »

I assume that you have checked that the unsigned will is not just a copy of the will before signing and that a signed original does not exist at the solicitors/with whoever drew up the will?
I am executor for a friend and I have only a copy of the draft pre signature along with details of where the actual signed will is stored.

In which case the executor is constrained unless, and until, they have the signed copy. Any prudent putative executor needs to check for a valid will before proceeding.

poppystar

Yorkshireman99 wrote: »

In which case the executor is constrained unless, and until, they have the signed copy. Any prudent putative executor needs to check for a valid will before proceeding.

Indeed. But I do wonder how many wills are languishing in solicitors vaults unclaimed because either the executors were not told the will existed or where it was or the executor who knew passed on themselves or people lost their copies, moved away and the details got buried in other paperwork - or even the will was 'conveniently' not found by someone who would gain more from the intestacy rules.

The move towards registering wills is a good one in my opinion but not everyone has done this particularly if the will was drawn up some time ago.
A good solicitor dealing with an estate will canvas all local solicitors to check there is no will/more up to date will but I'm not sure that many lay executors would.

So I thought I would just raise the possibility that the unsigned will was an early copy/draft for the OP

Brighty

Cheers all
As per a previous thread http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5440024 there is no signed will. Bit gutting really, especially as step dad also has no signed will, he's been wifes step dad for 25 of her 38 years, but on his death the whole lot will go to his sister or her kids. Guess we'll never know about the insurance policies then, we just have to trust what, if anything, he tells us. Just hope in the future we can convince him to sign his will or get a new one made if he wants it to go to his step kids.

I agree that it really is a crazy situation where it's up to a named executor, who would probably benefit in some way, to decide how hard to look for a valid will, or hide the existance if one if it was found, with no checks being made or comeback, you just have to take their word for it.

Would it be so hard to make all will registered upon making them. Say on the hmrc gateway. Just log in and activate/deactivate wills at will.
Brighty

Yorkshireman99

poppystar wrote: »

Indeed. But I do wonder how many wills are languishing in solicitors vaults unclaimed because either the executors were not told the will existed or where it was or the executor who knew passed on themselves or people lost their copies, moved away and the details got buried in other paperwork - or even the will was 'conveniently' not found by someone who would gain more from the intestacy rules.

The move towards registering wills is a good one in my opinion but not everyone has done this particularly if the will was drawn up some time ago.
A good solicitor dealing with an estate will canvas all local solicitors to check there is no will/more up to date will but I'm not sure that many lay executors would.

So I thought I would just raise the possibility that the unsigned will was an early copy/draft for the OP

IMHO the problem is that wills and death still seem to be taboo among the living. I suppose I am very fortunate that I was brought up to be open about the topics and know the importance of having a current will and discussing it with the executors long before dying. Whilst am not generally in favour of more laws the compulsory registration of wills with a mechanism linking it to death registration would be an advance.

SevenOfNine

Brighty wrote: »

Before her death, she had told my wife that she had a small life policy (£4k was mentioned) that paid out to the 4 grandkids.

On her death, no paperwork for either policy was found. A look at bank statements found some likely candidates and FIL was left to investigate.

Is it worth you investigating then writing to say if there was a policy could they check they had the correct, current address of the beneficiaries (& give it) - nothing to lose surely, unless step dad finds out & throws a wobbly.

My question is, would a life policy payable to 4 grandkids, pay out to the husband for him to distribute as he sees fit (give half to the kids, use the rest to pay off his car loan for instance) or should it only pay out to the kids?

Our late son had nominated his brother (his dad was executor though no Will), we confirmed his brother's address was correct & it paid out straight to him by cheque, though we were also sent written confirmation separately of how much & when it was sent.

My mother received money from deceased aunt's life insurance policy as executor of her estate, but she had not nominated a recipient.

If MiL nominated the 4 kids properly, they may have told FiL the amount on production of the death cert in case req'd for Grant application, but I'm not sure they would have actually paid it out to him without trying to locate the 4 kids??

Maybe someone on the insurance forum would know the 'usual' procedure - though I suppose it may depend on the policy.

Yorkshireman99

SevenOfNine wrote: »

Our late son had nominated his brother (his dad was executor though no Will), we confirmed his brother's address was correct & it paid out straight to him by cheque, though we were also sent written confirmation separately of how much & when it was sent.

My mother received money from deceased aunt's life insurance policy as executor of her estate, but she had not nominated a recipient.

If MiL nominated the 4 kids properly, they may have told FiL the amount on production of the death cert in case req'd for Grant application, but I'm not sure they would have actually paid it out to him without trying to locate the 4 kids??

Maybe someone on the insurance forum would know the 'usual' procedure - though I suppose it may depend on the policy.

It depends on the policy and the terms. Often the beneficiaries of the policy are paid direct as the sums do not form part of the estate and the executors have no part in it. However, the executor is often the person who notifies the insurance company of the death. I would then expect the insurer to write direct to the beneficiaries of the policy rather than doing it via the executor. This makes me suspicious of what has actually happened in the OP's case. I would suggest the OP ask for nfull etails of the policy so they can check direct with the insurer.

chesky

You can't have an executor if there is no will.
You could have an administrator, but that's a slightly different role.

SevenOfNine

chesky wrote: »

You can't have an executor if there is no will.
You could have an administrator, but that's a slightly different role.

Executrix if female of course. The roles are so slightly different the application forms are exactly the same ones! Interestingly, my husband was referred to by several organisations, power, council tax, BT, financial organisations etc as "the executor of the estate of ****".

Perhaps the 'hair splitting' is why Personal Representative has become more widely accepted.

Congratulations on your observation. :T